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- - January 29, 2020
What’s Going on at WunderWoods
Everyone always asks what I do. Here's the answer. Click on the photo above for a short video tour and see all of the steps it takes to go from a tree to finished furniture.
Never SAND White Pine! Plane it by hand and leave it!
Thanks for the quick comment Marty. I agree. If you can plane it by hand do it. However, on this job there is about 200 bd. ft. that needs to be surfaced on two sides. No go on the hand planing. Most of it is in good shape out of the planer, but there are a few spots that require some love. Hand planing is especially good on the rustic work. Set the plane deep and leave the marks.
Pine is iconic. People know what it looks like. It’s one of the few woods that everyone under the sun knows the name smell and look of. They associate pine with cabins, hunting, grandmas house. Even if pine can be sanded, why waste your time? The first set of keys that hit the table or riveted jeans sit on the chair, you a right back into rustic-ville. Save the sanding for Cherry, Walnut and Maple. Building furniture that needs to be sanded out of Pine is a mis-application of material.
I agree almost completely. Material consideration is an important part of the building process and pine does lend itself to more simple and even rustic work. But, I think it is a little too aggressive to say that it should never be sanded and that if you sand it you are not using it correctly. In many cases, the edges are eased and made to look more worn by sanding (sandpaper) and burnishing (hammer handle), which is difficult to achieve with a straight-cutting tool like a hand plane. In this project specifically, some of the boards, since they were wide, ran through an area of the thickness planer that had knicks in the knives. Without a little sanding, I felt that the final project would look more amateur. The key here is that I know some woodworkers will be tempted or forced to sand pine at some time and may face the issue of clogging sandpaper. Hopefully, this will help them avoid having to buy extra paper. Thanks for the spirited discussion!
Great Blog Scott!
I remember the cedar well. After sawing for a couple days my wife was
tired of me smelling like a closet at grandma’s house!! Great pictures Scott.
Sure do miss working with you.
Will the un-neutralized lye hurt the overlaid finishes?
I personally have had no problems putting the finish over un-neutralized lye, using oil-based finishes like Danish oil and/or lacquer. Taking the step to neutralize it for a margin of safety couldn’t hurt, but I haven’t found it to be necessary.
Why was I not notified of the said 54″ Burr Oak!!!!
It’s probably the same as getting “road rash” on you knee. Starts red and goes to black!
Looking forward to more about this one….
I know exactly what your talking about. I never liked them much either. On my Woodmizer, the supports are much thicker and square to the bed. But I don’t
like the adjustable holddowns as much. It takes two hands to get it clamped.
The Timberking was alot easier if your trying to do it with one hand.
Ouch!!
Scott,
Great website and blog. I’ll recommend it to some friends.
Dave Vitale
Thanks Dave, The more the merrier
Dude – I’m totally sad to see this.
Scott:
Very sorry to hear the news. Good luck rebuilding.
Steve Palmer
Ah, no, Scott! Not good at all!
Great blog. The writing is so crystal clear and discriptive—almost like a picture.
I’m off all week. Got anythng for me to do?
OMG !!!! Scott we are so sorry to see this. Mom told us about it.
Wow Scott! We’re so sad to see these pictures. Guess we know what to get you for Christmas (& birthday, fathers day, etc. :-))
Dude! That is the WORST!!! What are you going to do?
Holy Crapola! What happened? I’m really sorry to hear about this. If you need something from me let me know. I’ll try to help however I can. Rick
I can only imagine how you must feel. If you need any help rebuilding let me know.
Some people think SketchUp is for rough, not to scale, small things. But it can be used for pretty much any thing, of any size, with accuracy and also has plenty of add-ons for finished renderings, lighting, textures, etc….I second that it’s awesome!
Dude..I just noticed the fire pics. I am sorry for your loss. es…
Scott,
Does MDF move more than poplar?
Bob,
Do you have an application mind? I want to give you a complete answer but there are several ways that I could compare the two. Give me as much info as you can, so I can focus my response. Thanks
Scott,
We are using 5 1/4″ MDF baseboard from Koetter in the corridors of a nursing home. So, alot of full length, 16′ or so pieces. With the season change the building has a humidity swing that opens up our scarf joints pretty bad. Shrinkage over 16′ can add up pretty quick. If we were to use the same base in a finger jointed poplar or pine, do you think we would have the same issue? Problem is the test period is six months or so. Let me know your thoughts and questions. Thank you
Bob,
MDF is often recommended for its stability based on the fact that it shrinks and swells uniformly in all directions. Solid wood is considered less stable because the wood moves different amounts in each of the three directions. In this case, however, that is not such a bad thing because one of those numbers, which is the movement in length, is basically zero in solid wood. The movement in the length of MDF is greater than zero because MDF is made from wood fibers that are going in all directions. I have no hard numbers on this to officially compare the two, but I am confident in recommending solid lumber over MDF in this situation.
As a footnote, I have made panels for wainscotting out of MDF and run into a similar situation. The MDF shrinks the same amount in all directions and produces noticeable seams in the winter. In this wainscotting, the panels are MDF and the frames just happen to be made of poplar, which puts our two contenders side by side and indicates the MDF is shrinking more.
I remember the cold day you and I went there to work for a day. What a operation!! I believe we were looking to grab some maple boards.
Yes, sir! We went in looking for maple and came home with a bunch of cherry. I usually only take my little truck, so I don’t spend too much money! I took the big truck the other day looking for a couple hundred board feet and came home with an entire stack of about 1300 board feet. I can’t do that with my pickup.
Hi Scott..My husband and I are planning to build a log cabin. Just recently there was an add in the paper for a log package for sale. It was supposedly left over from a planned community in Branson, Ms. which fell apart because financing became a problem. The cost of the package would save us money, but I am concerned about buying wood that sat at the construction site for two years. Supposedly it had “layers” between the logs to keep them dry? They didn’t have it treated for critters b/c they were told to wait until the cabin was built? Yes we are skeptical about buying it, however it would save us quite a bit of money up front. The wood is oak. What say you? Thanks so much!
Dana,
First check to see if it is white oak or red oak. White oak is many more times durable than red oak. Also, verify that they were on sticks with air between them. If they were “dead stacked” on the ground, with no air-circulation they will rot much quicker. As a safety precaution check to see that none of the areas that would be prone to stay wet, for example, on the bottom, are soft or punky. Any piece of metal can be used to test for the soundness of the wood. Just hit it and literally listen to the sound. If it is hard it sounds very different than if it is soft. I would also cut the end off of one of the pieces and get a look inside. A fresh cut will tell you a lot about it.
So, here is my final answer. Look at the wood and how it was stored closely. If it is red oak, and it was thrown in a pile on the ground to rot for two years, it is probably no good, at least in spots. White oak in the same situation might be alright. If stored correctly both, red and white oak should be fine. Just hope it is white oak.
As far as bugs go, there are probably some in there, but most likely none that cause structural damage, they just add character. Termites are the real issue and they take a little while to work. For your peace of mind, I would have the wood sprayed before installation and have pest control maintenance performed regularly no matter where the logs came from.
Good luck with your investigation!
Let the revolution begin!
I am a trend setter
Amen! I own the Makita 18V, I purchased it right before I built my deck. Looking back, I could not have imagined driving all of the deck board fasteners with a regular cordless drill. Those screws where stainless and the heads more prone to strip than ordinary steel screws. With the impact I saved myself time and a lot of wasted screws.
How much would it cost me to have you build me a Wonderwoods home with a view like that? 🙂
Wow. That place is huge. You could make a lot of Joia sticks in there!
I have 500 sq. ft. just for Joia sticks ready to go. Need more? Sticks that is, not space.
Congrats on the new shop Scott! One question though . . . . . Did you tell the people you’re leasing from that you burned your last one to the ground? Hah
I did tell them that I burned my last one down. They didn’t seem to mind, though I am not sure that they thought it through completely.
Congrats Scott! The new shop looks like it will serve you well. Don’t know anything about the machines but they look impressive!!
I’m sure you’ll have it loaded with wood by May??
Gena & Tom
I’m jealous of the new shop space, but I don’t think my wife would appreciate me following your example by “showing good hustle and quickly burning down my shop” since it is in the basement of our home. I can appreciate the fact that your shop is as clean as it will ever be. My oldest brother told me years ago that he was impressed with how I cared for my tools by keeping them packed in sawdust so they wouldn’t get scratched. I’ve decided that’s a good way to think about the mess.
Craig
I like to think of it as being better for my knees and ankles. None of that hard concrete to shorten my working life.
So will be ur first?
You will. I have a shop full of your kitchen right now!
sharp fixes a lot—I should make that a t shirt
I would be the first to buy one.
Love the photos of your wine cellars and the racks you have made and of course if you are going to have a wine cellar, one must have a round top door.
Will ask questions later. Jack
This is a very educational post….for people who can smell!
I’m seeing a first annual Wunder Woods, wood smelling competition coming on!
beautiful—-but those chairs?
We all learned something from that one. Who woulda thunk it!
I remember that day well and still can picture the look on your face when you realized what you did. Absolutely PRICELESS!
Hi Scott…Vince from Columbia,Ill…..I have a 1 3/8″ thick 34″ wide wood entry door needing thickness sanding. Are you set up and ready to go? I want to take off a half inch to recv new wood verner front.
I have your address but could use your phone number also.
Thanks
vkvkvk352@gmail.com
Vince,
I am set up. Give me a call to set up a time at 314-574-6036.
Wish we had a picture of the mangled tambors. That would have been a real nice add to this all too real life event. It contributed to making you the great craftsman you are today!
I was too busy cleaning my underwear to take a picture.
PW and FW says buy 120% of the BF you need my error rate is way higher than that but the mills love me
I hope you got paid for that post!! If not you should!
You’re very brave to admit to something like this but, I’m sure we all appreciate the time you’ve taken to share this, as it’s something many can learn from! 🙂
I was at the tool event and used one of Konrads smoothing planes — it is worth it. I will get decades out of my LN smoothing plane but every time I pick it up—well I think of sauer and stiener
There were many impressive things there, but Konrad’s blew my socks off. I took a couple swipes on a chunk of wood and I knew I had better set it down quick or I would have a lot less money in my bank account.
Wow! Those are sexy!
I agree. They are nice to look at. I thought the Lie-Nielsen line was nice until I saw these. Of course, there is a bit of a price difference.
Bottom line is there beautiful tools nice to look at and without question good to use but if we could all be in the situation to buy these at these prices we probably would be rich already and wouldn’t need to work and then would be buying these to use as a hobby or collection to show off with would love to see these sold at a more affordable price and more realistic price its taken me many years to build my tool collection and don’t have anything like this in my tool collection still everyone know us carpenters are all millionaires NOT I WISH LOL
So did you go back and get them?
Not yet. I’m trying not to look. If I do, I won’t be able to stop myself. Before you know it I’ll cut off my sleeves, loose the shoes, get a dog, grab my gun and hang out with Shelby Stanga, never to be seen again.
I have a boat…
I appreciate the offer. I think we need to go fishing and bring the chainsaw just in case.
Scott,
Thanks to you and the guild and the Logs to Lumber extravaganza a couple years ago, I too can never walk through the woods like a normal person again. I keep looking at trees and logs trying to imagine what treasures lie within.
Me too. Then I start figuring out how I’m going to get them home.
This jig is a fast and dirty way to achieve temporary results. Don’t glorify it any further than that. It’s “clean” compared to most screw applications but is a second or maybe even third tier alternative to wood craft. In no way should this be passed off as good craftsmanship in high end carpentry or fine furniture. Don’t make the mistake of diluting your work. I see its application in plywood and rough work. Don’t dumb down your work with home depot quality methodology… professional or novice.
Martin Goebel
Goebel & Co. Furniture
Scott, I think your uses are correct, but Martin is right about the furniture. Even on a simple table, I can’t think of a joint where I would feel good about a pocket screw holding up better than m and t’s.
Scott,
I must admit that I feel exactly as you do regarding Kreg technology, even to the point of buying their screws in bulk. I think that my own reservations about the Kreg approach is that it is just so simple and easy it seems that it must be deficient in some respect. Isn’t this one of those threshold events that seems like the first step on a slippery slope from whence you will not return with your dearly earned standards intact?
I believe that this happens often and not everybody even notices. Some do, like in the mental scenario that I am currently envisioning: Duncan Phyfe at a shop-wide production meeting where he confesses, “Well, I am sorry that I was sooo … harsh about insisting that any competent woodworker would only use class A Shagreen to prepare this Cuban Mahogany, and do you know, this new glass paper is pretty good?” or words to that effect. Most of these conundrums are decided on the basis of efficacy and today’s woodworker may lament (while drinking, for instance) that it is no longer necessary to boil beef parts in order to make their own glue. Genuine, authentic and historically correct? You bet! Would it help me to make a better return on my labor? Pass the Titebond, please.
We can (and love to) separate these issues into philosophical distinctions, since we now have options. On the other hand, I have never read any mention of a period woodworker missing the joy of preparing stock with a pitsaw. It only sounds romantic if you don’t have to do it, methinks.. I believe that woodworking is nearly as concerned with the inner (and outer) dialogue and drawing those distinctions, as it is about wood. If you didn’t think about the means as much as the ends you would be a woodworker of lesser dimension.
Mike Willard
I believe the Kreg Jig approach is a necessity for survival for those valiantly attempting to earn a living as a profesional woodworker. Is it heirloom joinery? Emphatically no! Is it acceptable if you’re trying to put food on the table for your family and at the same time compete with cheap, off shore crap? Well, at least you’re trying to offer beter quality than the glued together particle board offered by your convienently located big box store. Those that have the luxury of pursueing a piece built to heirloom quality standards should champion the effort to inform the public that quality is worth paying for. Meanwhile, good luck and best wishes to those fighting spirits trying to earn a living at woodworking.
Steve Palmer
The night after I put up this post, I was tasked with putting a bird house on top of a wood post. “What to use?,” I asked myself. In the true spirit of controversial woodworking, I pulled out the Kreg Jig. It may not be real woodworking, but neither is the Home Depot bird house, right? Problem solved. Just make sure not to build an heirloom birdhouse.
here is my thoughts and they are free—- so you see the value
if it is a heirloom piece use all the skills and knowledge you have and enjoy the process as well as the outcome. if you are building kitchen cabinets/ built ins for a house that will be used for for 5-10-15 yrs an then remodeled the Kreg is a-ok. When I am building furniture/box/ etc I look at it as a legacy when I am building plantation shutters I want to get done Trust me you will know if you are cheating the craft.
for me it’s pretty simpe: what’s the client willing to spend? if they have a low budget, they get kreg jig. If they have a high budget, they get m+t. either way, it will look better and will be much stronger than anything they bought off the shelf, and that, is a win win situation for me and my clients. at the end of the day you have to be a smart business person if you want to have a business. thankfully, the furniture at these stores is such crap that even if my pieces were held together by 50 cent gum it would be stronger. case closed!
I use the Kreg Jig on occasion. Fact is that it does work, particularly on face frames. I don’t use it where a mortise and tenon will do. But I also don’t believe in overbuilding face frames. I am an amatuer who gets maybe a few hours each week in the shop. And while I make furniture for fun, I also be make things that are useful and look nice(at least I try) I think there is a real danger when we hear terms like “real woodworker” “hand tool woodworker” “power tool woodworker” To me it’s all means to an end. Since when did woodworking have to be dealt with in absolutes? I’m for anything that gets people in the shop. I started off about 3 years ago with a bad table saw and a router. Today I have several nice projects under my belt and cut much of my joinery by hand. I think getting started is the most important thing. Later you will learn when and where to use certain methods. I don’t think that a pocket hole is going to be the end of quality woodworking by any stretch.
I am glad that you brought up the absolutes. I see everything in shades of gray personally, which has sparked this conversation. I don’t know exactly where to stop using the Kreg jig. Their products are nicely made and work well for their intention, but at some point you can have too many pocket screws. I see promotional videos for the Kreg jig and everything is pocket screwed for demonstration purposes. You can do this, but do you want to? When I saw them going crazy and pocket screwing everything, it made me feel a little sick to my stomach, like the piece was cobbled together. As this discussion has continued the separation seems to be between cabinets and furniture. While alright on cabinets (especially face frames), no one has attempted to make a case for using them to hold together furniture.
.
Cobble…to make or assemble roughly or hastily <the stranded hikers cobbled together a rickety shelter I looked that up.
I believe I've made my point……………
You’re right, I wouldn’t use them for case assembly nor have I ever seen anybody try to. I have used them twice for attaching a top rather than buttons. Both times I attached, removed, elongated the holes, and reattached. So far after a few years I haven’t noticed any splitting in either case and I live in PA where we have cold dry winters and hot and humid summers. Turns out that this was a traditional method of attaching table/cabinet tops but fell out of favor in the early 20th century. I would hesitate to judge anybody for using them, however. As I said, if somebody new to the hobby decides to use them for case construction then go for it. Whatever works for you works for me. I’m not here to judge a hobbyists furniture. I only judge it if I’m paying for it.
A band saw and hand plane are faster, safer And more accurate.
Been there, done that. I agree bandsaw is better.
Lets clarify what I meant. For repeatability on quantity as well as quality, table saw is the way to go. But pattern being copied has to be exact. Not sure about hand plane.
I’m a little late in replying, but i found this post and the comments interesting and somewhat related to a recent decision on one of my projects. I too have used the Kreg for shop jigs, a few face frames and many practical joinery tasks around the house (similar to the birdhouse example). I generally avoid pocket screws for “fine furniture” in the rare cases I find time to build something in this category.
Since my time in the shop is limited, balancing quality and time required is a relevant challenge. I have built furniture in the past with M&T joints and although I feel better about the quality, it is time consuming. In an attempt to build a loft bed for my son, I needed to find an efficient, but hidden joinery system. Although a loft bed might not be considered fine furniture by most, my version is solid cherry and “finer” than what you would find in a store (at least in my opinion). M&T was possible although problematic, especially on the 100+ inch rails. Obviously, I could cut these by hand, but that consumes even more time and man-handling the rails on the table saw / shaper was not an attractive option.
I had always been an opponent of dowel joints based on my experience with a cheap “self-centering” dowel jig years ago. In my experience this was more of a “self-misaligning” jig and the joints were never to my standards. After reading reviews and biting the proverbial bullet, I bought a Dowelmax jig. I have to say that I have been very pleased with the balance of precision and speed that this jig has provided. I have also found that it is very flexible and can handle a wide variety of joints. I created my own custom shims from aluminum bar stock and used these to put 16 dowels (2 rows of 8) in the joints between the 5/4″ X 6″ cross rails and 4″ X 4″ posts with the rails being offset exactly 3/16″ from flush. The alignment is perfect and the joint seems to be sufficiently overengineered to my standards.
Although this is not exactly related to the Kreg question it has given me a viable alternative in the joinery spectrum. I don’t know if everyone would agree, but the range of joints in the quality vs. time spectrum in my mind goes something like this (in order):
– Dovetail (where appropriate)
– M&T
– Loose tenon
– Dowelmax
– Biscuit
– Pocket screw
– Nail
– Toenail
– Corrugated fastener
– Duct tape
– Cheap self-centering dowel jig
Craig,
I too have had bad results with dowels, so much so that I pretty much stopped using them a long time ago. There just seemed to be so many directions that things wouldn’t line up. Biscuits solve this problem since one direction is adjustable. For more substantial joints, like the bed you mentioned, I have always thought that we need a biscuit jointer with an extra thick blade and thicker biscuits. Then we start drifting into Festool Domino territory and their loose tenons and before you know it we are back to traditional mortise and tenons. Bring on the duct tape.
Today, I was building another router table after the fire and decided to build a decent utilitarian unit in the shortest amount of time. I can tell you that I used the Kreg jig to hold on the top, and I didn’t even fret over whether this was acceptable or not. I was using plywood and had no cross-grain situations, so I didn’t need to worry about expansion and contraction. Going back to billattapa’s comment above on loosely securing tops, I think elongated Kreg jig holes are a nice solution and very similar to how I might handle it otherwise.
Nice article. I love maple but it’s expensive. I made the trim in our kitchen from maple and I remember trying to nail it with fine finish nails. Even with a pilot hole it was tough going. So I broke down and picked up a compressor and finish nailer.
I always thought maple took a nice finish, and is also tough(tougher) than nails. Again, nice job.
Bill,
That’s two more reasons to love silver maple. It is less expensive than sugar maple and it will take fasteners better.
Hard maple does take a nice finish because can be sanded glass smooth, but that is the reason it is so hard to stain evenly. The parts that are glass smooth take no stain and anywhere the grain changes directions the stain soaks in, causing blotchy color.
I would like to add that soft maple is a terrible choice for baseball bats! Broke on the second swing!
Silver maple is more brittle. After storms you’ll see a lot of silver maple branches on the ground. We had a sugar maple at our last house that grew abnormally with a million branches and they never fell off. Sugar maple wins the brittle battle, but when it blows up on the baseball field, it blows into a billion pieces. Even so, it still makes a better bat.
This is good stuff. I am sold. I am headed out right now to get some ..donuts.
thx.
It’s not my first time to pay a visit this web site, i am browsing this site dailly and get pleasant facts from here everyday.
Hello Scott, I got your email on the planer and threw a couple of bids in that were quickly trumped by $2.50. I guess I’ll wait a couple of days and see where its at. If nothing else, I moved the bids higher for you. I think I told you I moved to Kansas City in 2010. I’ve been busy with the day job, engineering consulting, and have neglected my wood working and saw milling. I still have the Lucas but haven’t started it for awhile. I built a 60 x 80 building on my farm with a 30 x 30 living space on the side. That’s kept me busy, and broke, for a couple of years. Concrete is not cheap! I hope to start putting up interior walls this fall and by spring be building some cabinets. I enjoyed catching up by reading your blog posts. Sorry about the fire. I do fire investigations and you are not the first to fall to the seduction of expediency. You didn’t mention how the shop equipment fared, I hope the firemen were able to save more than the foundation. Next time I’m in St. Louis I will give you a call and if you are around I’ll stop by. Our office is in O’Fallon and every few months I get to town. I really enjoyed your posts that chronical you interations with your daughter. I have a 3 yr. old granddaughter and hope to make some similiar memories as she get a little older. She is already a pretty good tag along and helper.
Regards,
ps This guy is a friend, I set him up in a location for his sawmill. He’s a nice guy, about 45 or 50, who just loves cutting up trees. His main business is custom lumber milling. Love, W
Nice post. the carts started getting hot about 1.5 yrs. ago and remain very sellable. The Ely Walker lofts downtown use one as part of their lobby furniture.
Hopefully they stay sellable a little while longer.
sassafras is in the avocado family. and there are FOUR leaf shapes, if you include both left and right mittens.
You know i am bigtime familiar was this. Still have some we cut a couple of years ago. Also have a few growing around me. Put it on the mill and it will be
a great day. WHAT A SMELL!
Scott, get me some smallish sassafras boards and I’ll make some boxes you can use (er… You can use pictures of the boxes) to show what it looks like.
I’ll even pay you for the wood! 🙂
I work for restoration hardware, these carts sell like crazy!!
I want to deliver green hickory logs and get back furniture or dried wood.
Bud,
Give me a call at 314-574-6036 to discuss. I am sure that I can help you out.
Sounds good to me, I have a great Sassafras that died this year that I would like to do the same with, furniture for green wood.
“Fisheye killer?” Never heard of it.
That would have taken me four or five times, but I would have given up before that.
Fisheye killer. Just add a drop or two. It changes the surface tension of the finish to better match what you are spraying. Silicone is a common/main ingredient. I would like to think that there is a brand without silicone in it, but the manufacturers don’t detail the ingredients.
Hey Scott. I have a question regarding scroll saws. Do you have any recommendation of a good scroll saw for a home wood worker? Thanks. Tim Plawski
________________________________
Tim,
I use a scroll saw when necessary, but I am usually very utilitarian about it. I have never considered myself a scroll sawyer and use it only as much as forced too for a specific job. I have had no problems with name brand saws like Delta and Dewalt, but those are the only two that I have used. With that said, I do have two thoughts:
1) No matter which saw you use, make sure to always have a sharp blade. I have found the scroll saw to remind me of a tiny band saw in performance and nothing makes things better or worse than the sharpness of the blade.
2) I sold an “RBI Hawk” once for a friend, and people were falling all over themselves to get that thing. Everyone acted like it was a fancy sports car that they had only seen in movies. It didn’t look that special to me, but I never used it and can’t comment on how well it worked.
Dude – How about some pics of the finish without the fisheye, hmm?
I cut my chops refinishing older pieces, and the first time you get fisheyes it’s nothing short of “what the ….” and you feel like you’re beating your head against a wall trying to resolve.
I have found that wax tends to be less problematic than silicone. A lot of the spray on furniture ‘waxes’ used over tha last 20+ years contained less wax and more silicone for the shine.
Wax is relatively easy to clean off with solvents, but silicone resists removal by many solvents. Also when you sand, even though you are removing finish, the slicone tends to be smeared around while you sand.
One caution I hope they gave you when they sold you fisheye remover was to be extra diligent about cleaning your spray equipment AFTER using fisheye remover. Fisheye remover is a silicone additive. (Go figure, use silicone to counter silicone.) You have now put silicone into your spray gun and can contaminate future finishes. I know more than a few professional painters that have a seperate gun reserved for this purpose.
I was not made aware of the silicone that I was adding to the gun and to be diligent about cleaning it. I followed the directions and had no problems with fisheye or silicone in my gun later. It makes sense that the fisheye preventer may remain in the gun after the intended use and could cause a problem. I guess I was lucky or that was the one day a year that I happened to really clean out my gun. It is all a surface tension thing and the fisheye preventer serves to make the surface tension of your finish closer to that of the waxey/siliconey surface. It stands to reason that if you don’t clean your gun thoroughly after using the preventer that your problem will now just be reversed and your finish will be slippery instead of the surface you are spraying. No matter what, after an incident like this, it is best to start with everything new and clean.
I am refinishing a walnut table. I found out the hard way about fisheyes My first time refinishing the table I strippd it, sanded it, restained and put my first coat of laquer on it. After about five minutes I started to see little holes form in my finish, not good. Stripped the table again, sanded again, stained again. Sprayed laquer and it happened again, however not as bad. Thank goodness the table is an inch and half thick…maybe a little less after all the sanding. I stripped again and sanded again I have now stained again. Should I use a vinyl sealer and then add a fishneye preventer to my laquer. I am hoping that three is a charm.
Jim,
I think the naptha is the trick. Wiping with the naptha should help clean up the wax. Test in an inconspicuous area now that you have the stain on to make sure the naptha cleaning won’t mess up your stain. Of course, it may not be wax, but instead, silicone. The fisheye preventer will help with that, but be sure to follow the directions and clean your gun after you spray like Jeremy T. recommended. The vinyl sealer shouldn’t make a difference because it will fisheye like the lacquer. Another option is a seal coat of shellac. Shellac is a great finish that works with most everything and makes a good primer for most everything. If you are worried and are thinking about a sealer of some kind, use shellac cut very thin with denatured alcohol to do the job. One side note: if you are using an oil-based stain, it may not flow smoothly on the surface which indicates that your finish will most likely fisheye. The stain will not apply evenly and be repelled from some areas. If this happens, stop staining and start cleaning/sealing/fisheye preventing.
Scott, thanks for the warning.
Mark
Mark Koritz Lexco Group LLC Bussiness Growth& Development 314-267-6944
” I have always thought that it would help to have a well-trained beaver…”
That’s the quote of the year right there. 😀
Hey, why don’t you see if that one guy will take the driftwood railroad tie for a mantle and I can have the two pine tree trunks for my workbench top?
I’m glad you liked the well-trained beaver quote and sorry to say the other pine chunk is already a mantel, so no go on the switcharoo.
The OCD in me loves this rodent…
Those carts are awesome!!! Congratulations on your find!!!
Those carts are awesome!! Congratulations on your find!!!
That is a very cool tree. That first branch is a pretty substantial tree by itself. I know we’ve got a lot of them but white oaks are probably my favorite overall tree. Must be those rays. Thanks for this post.
It might be a swamp chestnut oak, or a swamp white oak, you’d have to look at the leaves, but you are right in that it is in the white oak family. The ones I mentioned often seal off their old branch stubs with those big knobs, while white oaks, quercus alba, do less so. These are the oldest trees in my woods, usually living to 250 years if allowed by weather, bugs and humans.
If you are inspired to build a treehouse, check out a specially-designed bolt called the “Garnier limb” invented by Micheal Garnier in Oregon, it solves several problems with treehouse building. I went to visit this guy a couple of years ago, he runs a little resort (the “Treesort”) that is all treehouses, it looks like that part of the game Myst with suspension bridges connecting multiple treehouses. It’s a stepped-diameter bolt that spreads the stress of weight across a larger area, and allows for tree growth. I find it criminal how readily people bang nails into trees, and as a sawyer I’m sure you do too.
Someday we’ll build a really cool fort!
Wes,
That tree is actually very close to your house. If you go out your front door and keep walking across Shakelford, I think you will run right in to it. It is across from Trinity church.
better not let OSHA see this.
Amazing!
My boys and I also recently went “river-exploring” and discovered numerous little treasures. Anyone with kids should give this a try. Although we were hoping to find one of the newly-exposed sand-bars resulting from the low water levels we instead ended up on a rocky shore right by the katy trail a t the Page extension. We hiked a couple miles and found mussels, old railroad spikes, lots of cool rocks (endless skipping rocks), and even an old rusted fishing pole sttand that we cleaned up, repainted, and gave to the grandparent for Christmas (To: Grandma and Grandpa; From: The River Rats). My youngest got stuck shin-deep in some mud, and we traversed a concrete tunnel under the Katy Trail that was built in 1910. Overall a fun and educational adventure!
We have had a great experience working with Scott Wunder and the great variety of material available at Wunder Woods
Mark Gordon
MDG Renovations
Scott, very cool blog! Do you offer any kind of resawing services? I have several 4/4 billets of Panama Rosewood ranging from 4″-8″ wide X 36″-75″ long that I’d like to get resawn for acoustic guitar sets. Please let me know if that’s something you offer, or if you know of someone else in town that does.
Thanks
Brad,
I do not officially have a resaw, but I use my sawmill to resaw when necessary. It is not as accurate as a resaw and mine is not yet up and running since the fire. Locally, I recommend that you call Bill Hibdon at Hibdon Hardwoods. They import logs and mill them for guitar sets as a large part of their business. I know they resaw and, if nothing else, they will be a great resource for you and your guitar work. My second recommendation is Fehlig brothers, also downtown. Pat O’Leary is the man at Fehlig you’ll want to talk to about shop work like this. They don’t specialize in guitars, but I use them a lot for other shop work that I can’t get done efficiently myself.
Great job Scott. How will you finish milling it?
The sycamore in the photo was quartersawn on the sawmill next. If I am flatsawing the log and it won’t fit on the mill, I just cut off one side and then mill that piece separately. Each log is treated differently depending on the final product I hope to make from it.
So you have the Timberking up and running?
Not quite yet. It is cleaned up and I have it set up in the new shop. I have a 15 hp electric motor that we have started wiring up. I still need to get the motor mounted too. It has a bigger footprint than the gas engine and needs a new baseplate.
Be sure to buy me something. Long trip for me to get there. Maybe new cordless impact.
Matthew Laposa 636-219-4597 Sent from my iPhone
Thanks for the info. I ‘m planning on going and VERY excited.
Great story and awesome result – your kitchen is beautiful!
Hi Scott, You say some people are snobby about their firewood…a few years back I had a big tree blocking my view of the river. Scoping it with binoculars I saw from the large, pale-green maple-shaped leaves it was a sycamore about a quarter-mile away down in the woods. I thought real hard about just where it was, and walked down there with a chainsaw and found the tallest sycamore around. I felled it and, well-satisfied with myself, marched back to my yard to check my accomplishment – to see the tree was still blocking my view! I eventually found the right one, but felt bad about wasting that tree. Later that year I needed some firewood and went down to the felled sycamore so at least it wouldn’t be a total waste. After only about six months lying on the ground the entire log had turned to soft cheese. It’s all just humus now, but I still feel bad about needlessly killing that tree. Wes
Scott, Thanks for a great story. You’re the best.
Nice stuff!! You have a extra one? LOL
To quote a classic… You are excited? Feel these nipples!!!!
Fantastic Mr. W… Looking forward to giving it a whirl.
In the year 3045 when mainstream furniture production utilizes robots and lasers to make furniture- old fashioned purists will use Kreg jigs because they are more “authentic”.
Humorous, thought provoking and perhaps dead-on. Thanks for the chuckle.
https://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/pockethole.html
This guy tests other joints against Kreg Joints, the only issue in have is that I wish he would have glue the Kreg joints like he did for the others
Do you have any carts left?
I have about 150 left. Feel free to call me at 314-574-6036 to talk about them.
Hi,
It’s been a while since any posts were made here. Any carts left?
Great information!!! I really enjoy your postings
Mom
_____
I don’t mean to sound ignorant I found one of these on Craigslist, are you selling some of these carts?
I am selling them on Craigslist and ebay. I had 200 of them and I am working on selling most of them.
Do yourself a favor, spend the $400 and buy a Festool. You will never love sanding so much… And it will be oddly dustless
Scott,
Good post. More, or better tools are no substitute for the right attitude and mindset.
Chris
Hello! Are you selling these???
I am selling these, and I just got some more. Give me a call and I could send you some pictures. 314-574-6036.
After all of that you lost the logs? WTF I’m sure your wife is just peachy about that. Sounds like a Scott adventure. It’s the journey, not the destination.
I lost the logs. I am hoping that maybe the root chunk is still there wedged in the piles, even though I pretty much cut it out. I will tell you though, that river is large my friend and that isn’t the only walnut out there. The next one will be right next to the boat ramp.
How could you tell it was a walnut before you cut it?
Since I only take free logs, a lot of the logs I pick up have been laying around for awhile. I have gotten good at figuring out what they are in various states of decay and have always made a game of it. In this case, there were a few characteristics that narrowed it down to walnut. First off, it wasn’t an oak or ash. Those are very open-grained and this was not. That took out a big chunk of choices right there. The next obvious ones to consider on the river are bottomland trees like cottonwood, sycamore and silver maple. This log was really old, but really solid. Any of those trees would have had rot issues somewhere along the log and this one did not. Sycamore was also ruled out because the grain was pretty straight and sycamore is always obviously not straight. That left me with only two choices; cherry or walnut. Both are highly rot resistant and are similar in grain. I have found a lot of logs like this in both cherry and walnut that were done on the outside, but still completely solid throughout. Plus, I like to think positively and tell myself that it is one of those two. The thing that nailed it down for me was the terrain of the surface of the log. The ripples were exaggerated from the water running over them for so long, but I have seen walnuts with a similar structure below the bark. Especially in summer, the bark falls off and exposes the waviness. This tree also had the shape I would expect from a walnut that grew to a large size close to a river. It was fairly clear at the bottom, but quickly started to show knots and branches in the second log, indicating that it grew in a somewhat open spot. It didn’t take long for me to be able to imagine it standing along the river at the bottom of a pasture in a thin line of trees and whispering, “I’m a walnut.”
LOL. Seriously? That’s the end of your story?
hahahaha…
Sorry. That totally sucks, man. I would have bought all of it, you know. Just that log, though, nothing else. It looked like it had some amazing character.
Full retail price, too.
🙂
Everyone is willing to pay full retail for stuff I don’t have. Maybe I’ll find one even better if and when the river goes back down. Then I’ll be sure to give you a call.
You know all I really want is some 5″ thick SYP that’s wide enough I only have to glue up two or three pieces at the most for a bench top, right? I’ll settle for fir. Or Hemlock.
Just stop selling it out from under me. 🙂
Love these carts! I have one in my family room. My son is into woodworking like you and I wish he would do what you are doing. I know these are popular because I hosted a bridal shower last year and some of my guests went crazy over my table. Keep up the great work and I’m sorry about the fire. Subscribing to your blog.
Thanks Kathy. I love the carts too. I just picked up some last week that are extra cute. I am going to post on my blog after I get some photos.
do you have any extra sets of hardware you would sell?
I do. Give me a call at 314-574-6036 and we can discuss.
OMG!!! This is hard to imagine… So glad to know everyone in the old neighborhood made it through ok. Very weird to see much sky around the old house!!
My condolences
Scott,
I lost a cluster of these trees a few years ago to disease and finally had Roger mill them. They grew together so there was a lot if interesting grain patterns. I’m looking forward to using it for a future project.
This is a very interesting article. i appreciate all the information you included. the photos are terrific. Thanks.
Hey, looking to find a lineberry. Do you have any left? Do you ship? Thanks!
I don’t have any Lineberry’s, only Nutting and Francis. I do have some left and I do ship them. Feel free to call me at 314-574-6036 to discuss.
The state champion American Elm is at Bellefontaine Cemetery in (near?) St. Louis and has a circumference of 191 inches and is 102′ tall with 122′ spread.
This looks pretty close!
Bulges are the worst, but easily explained away…
“Oh, uh, it’s the pleats… the pleats in the pants. It’s an optical illusion. I was just about to take them back… to the pants store. Oh this is embarrassing.”
(Sorry, brother. I tried not to comment. You are practically asking for it, though, right? Don’t blame me.)
My partner and I stumbled over here coming from a different web
address and thought I might check things out. I like what I see so now i am following you.
Look forward to going over your web page for a second time.
Glad you like it. I’ll try and make sure there is something to come back for.
It is a cool place. Whats up with the Army Ads? wow good job on that.
We love the Botanical Gardens!
Hi Scott. I just read your latest installment and when I read about the osage orange it reminded me of something. Here is a picture of a giant one at my dads plumbing shop in leavenworth ks. It is supposedly one of the largest in the state. It may actually be on record as the largest. I figured you’d be into it.
Hope alls well with you. I’m good. The jointer is fantastic. Stupendous even.
I just was talking to a friend I get wood from who was telling me about some kind of disease the ash trees out here are getting where the center of the crown dies and the rest of the tree follows. Was wondering if you’d seen it at all in Missouri. It would suck if ash became hard to come by. It’s a nice tree too. It was one of the few that didn’t totally get screwed up by the hurricane winds last year.
Mickey McCann 410.533.1794 http://www.mickeymccann.com
I love the “gardens”!!! I take the kiddos about once a week to check out the ever-changing blooms. They love it, but it’s mostly for me … I’m with you, you walk in and the world seems miles away. We should do a concert together 🙂
Any idea why white oaks have those bulges where they abandon branches? It’s a diagnostic feature on the swamp white oaks at my house: old branch lumps on the trunk.
This tree was in a residential area, so I don’t know if the branches that didn’t heal were poorly pruned, died out or were ripped off. Most of the time it seems like the problem is a dead branch that just lingers and doesn’t fall out, which then makes a cone shaped entrance into the middle of the tree when the branch finally does fall out. It may be a case where the durability of the
lumber works against the tree. A branch that rotted off quicker would have a better chance of healing over. Just a hypothesis on my part. I see it a lot in White Oaks and it is sad to see that just a small opening can bring down something so big and old.
Wow – I love the piece you have for the tabletop. What a beautiful piece of wood.
Beautiful. After a hard day you’ve got Perennial Ales right next door!
Sent from my iPod
Oh, hey, there is a bench top, Scott!
Great story. Who amongst us is beyond the major boner like that one. 🙂
Can I share a story, admittedly not as good as yours but one that I will never forget.
I once tried to move a wall switch over a foot during some remodeling. It was a complicated little sucker with three switches in the plate, two of which were 3-way switches so it had wires coming out of everywhere. I made absolutely sure to draw a diagram where every wire was to go on the new insert, one stud over.
I got the new one all wired up and set up a test lamp in one of the outlets. It didn’t work!! Say what? Man, did I rack my brain and drawings to figure out what the heck I did wrong. Nothing worked. What the heck did I do? Needless to say everything was buried behind dry wall. Everything worked before I started and now it doesn’t.
Four hours later, sweating bullets, I decided to walk my test lamp over to another outlet to check it out. Would you believe fate had decided to surreptitiously blow out the light bulb in that test lamp right at that moment in time between when I first tested the original switch configuration to when I rewired the new one.
A simple bulb change in the lamp announced that I had wired it correctly four hours before.
Mike,
Thanks for the story. I always use a hairdryer so I can hear it (especially helpful when working alone), but I guess I would have had the same problem if Chris burned it up just before I grabbed it.
Hey I plan to contact you but before I do first of all do you have any of these carts left? I would love one! I actually just came across the Lineberry Factory Carts site @ factorycarts.com and they actually can be bought directly from them for $350 and $450 for a totally redone cart which looks like it just came off the factory floor. Of course that doesn’t include the shipping price. There”s also a guy on Etsy that’s selling some for around $300 a piece. So what’s the best price you can do??
I hope my post doesn’t offend you I’m just a starving artist and single mom so I’m just trying to get the best deal I can. I’m familiar with architectural salvage and also know the market my backgrounds in furniture design so your right on they are also out there for exorbitant amounts. I just thought I’d share some resources I’d found so I had them also to back me up, but not to dissuade your buyers market either because i feel for you having to start from the ground up again after loosing your shop and revenue to fire. So I give you kudos for coming up with a clever way to market some salvaged finds.
Best of luck to you, and I’d also like a bargain if i can get one!
Thang Que!!!
No problem. I am not offended. My carts usually sell on ebay and go from $150 to $600 depending on condition and if the bidders are feeling frisky that day. I sell them from my shop for $250 -$300 for the good ones. For fun I went to the website that you directed me to and noticed that two of their photos are actually my photos of carts in my shop. I’ll call it flattery.
Agree with you about using walnut outside. I find that it not only is durable and strong, it is beautiful and works so nice. I have a cherry stump in my ward that is the result of a tree that was cut down 25 years ago and I believe I could get a fair amount of material from it. I am from south Louisiana and now live in North Louisiana and love working in wood. I have cut plenty logs with a chain saw and enjoyed seeing the inside of these beautiful things before anyone else. Keep up the good work. Larry
Sent from my iPhone
You sold me walnut for an english garden bench 8 years ago. Still solid — and I thought it was me
You are solid! I can’t believe it has already been eight years. Seems like just yesterday.
I recently toured the basement of an old warehouse and purchased 9 factory carts. All different styles. I have found some names on a few (Hamilton/Thomas) but most have no markings of the manufacturer…but some have the original purchasers label/stencil. Where do I go to find out what I have?
Good question. Most of mine have been Nutting and Francis with a few others tossed in (Thomas, for example). Usually, they are in batches and all are similar, so once one is identified you know what the others are. At the same time, I will tell you that I have run across several one-offs and some that I couldn’t identify. I haven’t found a good source yet for determining the maker, except for markings and luck.
I do rather enjoy being indirectly referred to as an “irregular” woodworker. Scott is correct in assuming that I would strongly recommend against utilizing four quarter lumber for large lamination… Or anything for that matter.
I see four quarter lumber as the beginning of 20th-century industrialization. We were able to Utilize more accurate cutting; a reduction of handwork necessary for flattening allowed us to utilize thinner wood and faster drying cycles. This also created an environment in which lowered grade logs were yielding somewhat higher grade Thinner boards. My issue is less substantial furniture with thinner boards… This leads to the downward spiral of cheaper, faster, more Homogenous pieces of craft work.
In this case you were adding more glue lines to a highly moisture sensitive surface. You are just asking for d-limonene issues
De-lamination
First off, for everyone else out there, realize that we (Martin Goebel and Scott Wunder) could argue about this all day long and still not come to an agreement, but we probably won’t kill each other either.
I would argue that if we are willing to use glue to join boards to make a table top at all (which both of us are) that there is little to no difference in adding lumber to make up the thickness. The scenario I have presented is perfect for glue as there is no cross-grain situation and all of the boards are glued to boards that will move the exact same amount and direction. After all, they are from the same board. You can’t get a better setup for glue. I have no more concerns about the boards coming apart with the additional thickness than I would have without it.
The thick wood/thin wood argument brings up a topic for a future post. And, that is the discussion of drying thick wood or logs before they are milled into finished lumber. There is a point at which wood is just too thick. Either too thick to dry completely or quickly, or too thick to not crack, check and split. As the wood gets thicker the inherent stresses in the tree start to dismantle the lumber as it dries. Again, I am not saying don’t use thick lumber, I love all lumber. But there is no way on this earth of ours to produce a 12″ thick piece of solid white oak lumber without checking or splitting. If your directive was to produce a contemporary (non rustic) mantel in the 12″ range, it could not be done. The splits automatically put it in the “more rustic” category. I would argue that a contemporary piece this size would have to be built from thinner lumber. Thick lumber isn’t always the answer.
Anyone else can respond. It doesn’t have to be Martin.
Beautiful and brilliant. Thanks for the info.
Thanks, David! I don’t know about brilliant, but every now and then my brain fires on more than one cylinder.
Scott,
Great post and very nice work! We did the same thing with our granite island top. It appears to be 6 cm thick – if the whole thing really was that thick it would probably crush the cabinets.
The weight is an especially important factor on granite. And with granite, you really have to work with what is available. In this case, the weight would not have been a deal breaker, it was just the amount of wood.
When the underside corner miter is being laminated with the off cuts, why the differ widths of the off-cuts?
There is no specific reason for the different widths. I had a little extra on the ends and left it a bit wider. Figured it couldn’t hurt in case I gave that end trim a little accidental Karate Kid action while I was handling it.
this calls for a martin v scott—claymation death match
Love how you added the edge profile to hide the glue lines. great work.
using Doyle scale how many board feet does a 59″ dia 8′ log have?
Wow! A lot. I will have to do some math and get back to you. In the meantime, let’s see some pictures and what is it?
That log has about 920 bd. ft. in it.
hello im looking for a tape measure scaling stick. I’ve seen one at work but no one can find them any more. Its a regular tape measure on one side and a scaling stick on other side. Do you know who makes or where i can find such an item..
I normally order from Bailey’s online. I checked there and they don’t have anything like it. I have never seen a tape measure for scaling logs myself. The closest is the folding log rule, but it is not a tape. Let us know if you find one. Hopefully, someone else will know and reply.
thanks anyway i work with the guy that has one ill post back with the manufacturer if theres ones on the rule all i know is that it is yellow with a tree on it?
Im just learning to use a scale, so I may be wrong. My sacle only goes to 47 inches. The best I can figure is a little more than 676 board feet.
You will need the log length as well as the diameter to figure out the board feet. My scale only goes to 44″ on the skinny end, which is a very big hardwood log. Of course, they do get bigger, but 44″ will cover most of the hardwood logs out there.
Dearest,
I am looking for a full set of hardware(everything but the wood) to make muself one of these awesome carts, the problem is i live in holland so the shipping of a whole cart costs a fortune, please contact me if you can ship me a set, you’d make me very happy.
Greets,
Nicky
Nicky,
Sorry, but I only ship in the US.
Thats unfortunate, but in that case i’ll arrange the shipping myself through an acquiantance in NY.
What will the shipping cost to send it there, and what are tha approx. size and weight? (Considering you are willing to sell a set of just the metal hardware) And ofcourse, what will that cost me?
I hope we can work this out, i really want one, but the ones i’ve come across in europe were way to expensive
Greets
I sell a set of hardware for $175. I will send you a photo of them before I ask for payment. It seems silly to ship to NY, just to ship to you. If you would like to arrange the shipping on your end, I will be happy to get it to you directly and skip NY.
Please do send some pics if you please. And how will i have to arrange shipping? Sorry i don’t understand what you mean. I hope you can help me acquire a set with your experience. PLease contact me on my e-mail for further details. Greets, Nicky
So you sell just the parts, I’m wanting to make one and just need the hardware.
I do sell some sets of hardware when I have them. Contact me through my e-mail at wunderwoods@sbcglobal.net with your details.
I like! And should make the observation that the previous post was about the virtues of thin wood… Yet all of this unique high quality wood is cut 2.375″ thick. Need I say more? Claymation death match goes to Martin
The last post was not necessarily about the virtues of thin wood, but how to make it work for you. The Claymation death match has not yet taken place, but this pre-death match does go to Martin.
If you find something in the Missouri at my place I’ll help drag it out with chains and cables and tractors. Still can’t figure out how you identify a tree of driftwood, they all look like cottonwoods to me.
I am glad you brought that up. Today, we were out looking for treasures, and I found some more interesting walnut pieces. Nothing worth milling, but they showed characteristics in the driftwood that gives the walnut away immediately. I also have found some white oak that stands out. One of my next blog posts will be on the river wood ID.
Do you sell and ship the parts for a factory cart. Just looking for the hardware. Thanks
I do. I will e-mail you, so that we can discuss the details.
beautiful piece!,,,quick question(s),what application method was used to apply the waterlox? bristle brush, sponge applicator, spray? about how many coats? did you use the watewrlox intended for marine applications or the original? did you thin it at all? and if so, with what and at what proportions?
I use the original Waterlox, purchased at a local Woodcraft store. Apply it with a cotton cloth/rag. Just pour it on and smooth it out. It doesn’t need to be thinned normally, but I could see occasions where thinning would help or be necessary, especially when pieces are large and it is hard to get consistent coverage before it wants to set up. Even if it does start to get sticky, as long as you can pull the cloth through it, it seems to flatten out. The countertop has several coats on it and is fully protected, but does not have a thick film of finish. The customer wants to use the top and be able to repair it when needed, so a heavy film thickness is less desirable. If I was trying to achieve a thicker finish, I would spray the Waterlox, but at that point, probably change over to a conversion varnish with a high solid content. The Waterlox is nice because it is consumer-repair friendly and is protective without being thick and plastic-like.
Do you have any large carts left and what would be the price. Are they expensive to ship? We live in DC.
I do have carts. I will e-mail you directly with the details.
Thank you again. My wood GOD
They say I should reply to all of my comments, but I don’t know what to say to that one. Your welcome?
Hi Scott, There’s a monograph by Ferdinand Cohn, written in German about a hundred years ago that describes torsion in trees. In your experence, do they tend to torque in any certain direction? The sycamore you show has a right-had twist, that is, if you ran your right-hand fingers along the cracks, your hand would travel in the direction of your (also right-hand) thumb. Does this indicate some “right-handedness” in nature? Or is it like with people, some percentage, say 15% are left-handed? I’ve wondered about this a long time.
I have never paid attention to the direction of the twist. In a quick, informal survey of slightly twisty logs at my shop, one went to the left and one went to the right. I thought that it would matter which end of the log I was looking at, but it doesn’t. If it goes to the right, it goes to the right, no matter which end you look at.
Brad, I have a Lineberry cart that has 4 left side corner post holders, it was modified awkwardly by somebody long ago. Do you have (2) ESP 14-R post holders you would sell so I can restore this cart?
I don’t have any Lineberry’s. Sorry, I couldn’t be more help.
Do you have any lineberry hardware including wheels for sale, if so what is the price and would you ship to Kentucky?
Sorry, no Lineberry’s right now.
Try Nelson Cold Storage in VA, he is a little pricey but has a lot of old Lineberry parts. I ordered a couple of corners from him for $45 each, they were the right parts and came prepaid. I had to have the exact part and he had it.
congrats for working the word booger into an article Joseph Pulitzer would be proud. The razor does work great.
I did labor over that a bit. I couldn’t say it any better, so I went with it.
It’s a great tip. Thanks.
If you go on a hot day, find the water-filled quarry about 100 yards beyond the picnic tables. There’s a ledge for jumping in, and the finest swimming pool in Missouri: huge, smooth-sided and carved in living rock. The Other quarry is straight beyond the Elephant Rocks from the parking lot. Johnson’s Shut-Ins is a great side trip nearby.
Scott – we just did this in July – amazing! I cannot believe I’ve lived here my whole life and never checked this out before. Another recommendation – if you don’t pack a lunch – check out the nearby town of Caledonia. Two good lunch restaurants and the a historically-accurate dry goods store – it is like stepping back in time (cool for grown ups who like old stuff) and they have old-school penny candy and kooky toys that the kids went nuts over (cool for the tinys who like new stuff). Johnson Shut Ins is next on our list – can’t wait!
This is pretty cool. I did not know formations like this occured in the Ozarks. If you ever want to see something really cool, just shoot down I-44 to Lawton Oklahoma and go to the Wichita Mountains. They are easily the most impressive things in that part of the country:
http://www.trailgroove.com/issue9.html?autoflip=57
Great post. I’ve been to Elephant Rocks many times in my life and I’m ashamed to say never paid much attention to the trees. I will the next time. Thanks.
Very nice, very nice indeed.
Scott, very nice,
MK
Mark Koritz Lexco Group LLC. Looking for Rental Properties Please call or email 314-267-6944
Surely, you are going to finish the stairs and get rid of that tinker-toy contraption? Rather, safety hazard.
Not sure what tinker toy contraption you are referring to, but I didn’t work on the stairs. You may be commenting on the lack of a handrail, which I assume is in the works. They can’t pass a final without it.
I didn’t see that part about the beer and a couch
This thing needs a like button…
be sure to wear safety glasses when using nippers as the cut off piece shoots straight back at you!!!! most pros hold their hand over the cutters when cutting nails etc.
I’m one of those lucky enough to always have glasses on, but for those of you that don’t – watch out! They do tend to shoot shrapnel if you are cutting with them. Most of the time I use them to pull instead of cut, but then again, sometimes they end up cutting when I think I am just pulling.
just saw you in a Dave M video took a double take
Great article I’m one of those guys that has long stood and stared at the spray guns and wondered………do I or don’t I? Now I think I have my answer and thank you for it. Over the last couple of years I have began to to use lacquer almost exclusively this is why you post realy got my attention. So I do have a question what do you mean that you just leave it when you finish there is no clean up. I’ve been told that if you don’t clean out the hose and gun and everything it will clog it all up this has been truthfully one of my big hang ups on buying such a system. Could you explain this a little more. I love your post keep up the good work.
Jeremy,
If you use pre-catalyzed lacquer (solvent-based), it will break down with lacquer thinner. If your gun gets clogged or gummed up, just soak it in lacquer thinner and you are ready to go. Since I don’t clean as much as I should, I will keep spraying until the gun doesn’t shoot well and then spend a little extra time cleaning it. Again, it is mostly soaking the gun in lacquer thinner with the possible addition of a little elbow grease.
If you took a little extra time each time you sprayed to clean the gun, you probably would never have an issue. I just can’t make myself do it.
You’re not going to work tomorrow are you?
What, a little snow and -10? I say yes, Chris says stay home? My customers say get to work. Chris most likely wins. Sorry, customers.
Scott,
Another great post! You left out one item that I thought you would include – use of Trans-Tint (on sale at Rockler right now by the way). Super easy to just add it right to the material canister full of lacquer and spray away!
Dave,
Great idea. I do want to talk about TransTint and decided to make that its own separate post. As you know, I use them a lot and have a lot to say about them. Sounds like it may be time.
I finally took your advice and tried it. They are expensive but a little goes a very long way. I was trying to repair a worn maple raised panel from the hall bath vanity where the finish had rubbed off. It was fun to try different colors and mixtures in water on maple scraps until I got it close – when I applied it to the panel it worked amazingly well.
I just finished a batch of the Cub Scout crosses that we made (44 of them) and I knew that it was time to use the HVLP sprayer. The Tint gave them just the right amount of color to warm them up. Thanks for the advice.
Hi Scott – loved your story regarding your affection for factory carts….
My cart affection/addiction is just beginning, and as an amature cabinetmaker, I have a vision for making a bed that looks like a factory cart.
(I missed a great opportunity a few years back to purchase multiple carts and I am really regretting it now).
I’ve been searching on-line for a set of cart hardware (seen a couple on ebay) and am getting ready to make a purchase. I did not see on your site that you sell just a hardware kit so I wanted to check in with you first before doing the ebay thing. Please advise. Thank you for your time. JDB
I do sell parts. Give me a call at 314-574-6036 and we can discuss the options.
I love Simple Green for cleaning saw blades of all kinds (and other metal) with pitch/gum/etc.
You sure you’re not getting ready to write a book! Pine oil cleans things up
as well. But Simple Green does smell better. Hope all is well with the family.
It also works great on creosote. Nasty, years old stains just wipe away.
Scott, Scott, Scott… Buy NO MORE of those crepe (crap?) rubber sanding belt/disc cleaning sticks! Go out to the garage and get a cutoff piece of white PVC pipe (or I’ll bring you a piece the next time I see you) and give it a try, instead. Works just as well. And it’s a heck of a lot cheaper.
Ethan, Glad you brought that up. I encountered the PVC trick while doing more research and it looks quick and easy. It appears to work like the rubber sanding belt cleaners, only with more backbone. I haven’t tried it yet myself. The wide-belt sander has sensors everywhere and is made to shut off if the doors are open, so I can’t officially use the PVC on the wide-belt sander. I will definitely try it on my hand-held belt sander and disc sander.
I showed everyone at the Build a Backsaw class at the guild workshop when the disc sander got clogged. Works like a charm!
OK, Simple Green works great for cleaning belts, which I must try.
However, does it darken Cherry?
Good one! I assume it doesn’t, but I better try it just to be sure.
Gina McCarthy would like to talk to you about your lye disposal
Do yo have any suggestions for beams that are already installed?
Nothing easy. I have never worked on beams that were already installed. The only change I imagine could be reasonably made would be with the finish. With different stains, glazes and topcoats they could be made to look older. The shortfall is that any surface changes like a hand-hewn finish really can’t be done on the ceiling.
Scott – You can also “Dress the Belt”, that is, remove slight inconsistencies in the feed belt by lowering a running sanding head/belt down and VERY GENTLY sanding the (moving) feed belt. Kind of the reverse of the Drum Dressing procedure. That way you end up with the sanding head “matched” to the feed belt.
I have a big compressor already. Do I need a special type of HVLP air gun to use with it, or will any quality HVLP air gun do the job.
Years ago we used Deft lacquer at a tech school where I took an evening class. We always left the gun full.
Leo Weisman, the self confessed tool hound and occasional builder of nice things.
You will need one for a compressor. The air is delivered to the gun differently between a compressor and a turbine and needs to be handled differently at the gun. A turbine is high volume low pressure, while a compressor is typically considered low volume high pressure. The compressor gun adjusts the pressure at the tip to deliver the air at low pressure. When purchasing a gun look at the air inlet to be sure you are getting the right one. At the bottom of the handle a compressor gun will have fittings or openings sized for a compressor. A turbine gun will have a much larger fitting or opening, big enough to handle a garden hose. Also, the handle itself will have more girth on a turbine powered gun.
Hi Scott
I have been following your blog and really look forward to them. I saw the last one about Walnut veneer logs. I have a friend who has a log that may qualify as a veneer log. Could I get the address and phone number of the mill that buys your veneer logs. Being able to sell it would really help him out.
Thanks
Glenn Hill
Tracy export is the company. My contact is Damian. The phone number is 618-337-6126. Their yard is in Cahokia, IL, but they will pick up if there is a load of logs.
Thanks for the fun story. I think the bird marks could be a story of their own on the right piece. Benches or bartops lend themselves to these types of flaws. I’m glad it didn’t go to veneer and make no apologies to your pocketbook…okay sorry a little
I have been cutting some old growth Doug fir with lots of pitch. the simple green works great. But, I just noticed on the simple green web site that it says not to use the all purpose cleaner on un finished wood. cant find an explaination of why,or what happens though.
Hi!
I want a factory cart table, but I’m sure shipping to New Orleans would be out of my budget. Do you sell/ship complete hardware sets like the ones on your blog?
Shipping for a full cart or a set of hardware is about the same at around $100. I sell part sets for $150 and full carts for $250-$300.
I had one. I killed it. (a chop-saw jumped up and attacked it.)
Scott, Thank you for taking the time to create this post, this is a great tutorial and exactly what I have been looking for! Bruce
Two wrongs just made a right. Take that, Universe!!
Really EXCELLENT video!!
Thanks, Kevin. It was fun too.
That was great Scott. I’m low on lumber. Do I need to call to set up an appointment?
You have great operation Going on. Little jealous. Amazing Big Red is still operational ! I have a few projects going on. Still have the Woodmizer. But getting logs and moving them is a challenge. By the way, the round table is kick ass!
Matthew Laposa 636-219-4597 Sent from my iPhone
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Thank you Matt. Big Red is still operational. I used to think I was going to get a new truck someday, but now it is obvious I will die in that thing. I have already had it for 15 years. I bet it has another 25 in it. After I replace everything it will be like a new truck, just never all at once.
Great video! Need to get that advertising team on board. . .
Thanks. I am thinking about firing the current crew and starting over. They are just worthless.
If I ever have trouble I will know what to look for ! Thanks !
Is the sanding sealer sprayed on? Thank you
I spray it, but it could be brushed on as well. I spray as much as I can for speed.
That’s awesome. Fixing doors are my specialty, and I never would have thought of this on my own. Of course I have other methods, but simple solutions like this fascinate me.
Just thought I’d add my two cents. I use Lufkin 1000 HV1312 12′ tapes and love them. I was a welder for 5 years and that’s all we used. They’re very durable and only $12. I use the Lufkin in the shop and when I’m doing something big where I need more than 12′ I have a 25′ Stanley Leverlock that I’ve had since ’97! That’s what they made before the FatMax tapes. Supposedly they’re gauranteed for life. I took one back before that one that I screwed around and broke the end off and Wal-Mart exchanged it no questions.
Ingenuity at it’s finest! Maybe you should commercialize this so others can have your sticks lying around in their shops buried under other stuff so that when they can’t find them they can invent even more alternative methods to measure liquids. . . . 🙂
That’s a great idea. I can supply the wood for the ingenuity part.
we have an unusual hard maple crotch that we would like to sell …is there a market for it?And how do we go about doing that?
Brian,
I have avenues for selling veneer logs and have tried to find buyers for specialty pieces like crotches but haven’t been successful. I have often thought about working backwards from veneer suppliers to get to the veneer mill, to then get to the log procurement department but have never done so. Crotch veneer is coming from somewhere and I assume that they need crotch logs to make the veneer. It seems like I would have “bumped” into somebody that messes with them by now. For me, it is still one of the mysteries of life.
I live on a ten acre place in the country in Johnson Co. Iowa. At least 20 yrs. ago I had a man from the Extension Office come out to look at my trees. At that time there were three acres of trees. I was particularly interested in what he thought of an old burr oak on the edge of the trees. He said it was there when Lewis and Clark made there journey in 1804. I have since let the rest of the property go to a wild state, planting a number of trees over the years. There are numerous 15 ft. burr oaks growing near this huge 200 plus year old tree now. My wife and I just went out to measure it. It is 128in. in circumference and 43in. in diameter. The crown as near as I can tell is 65ft. and I just can’t estimate how tall, maybe 70ft. One day years ago I saw a bald eagle perched in its highest branch. What a sight. I read online that the biggest burr oak is in Woodford Co. Ky. Its is 500 years old, is 287in. in circumference,90in. in diameter 104ft. tall and has a 93ft. crown!
I think that is pretty neat to have such a wonderful old Burr Oak on your property. Or any Burr Oak for that matter. It is fun to think about who might have sat under your tree over the years. The Burr Oak is my favorite because of its beautiful form, and of the huge “chicken egg” sized across that it has. They are just amazing to hold in my hands. I want to take them everywhere as not many in my area know about the trees. I purchased the acorns over the years as I wanted to see if they would grow here. Well, they do and they grow fast if they have a lot of sunlight and water. As fast as a Maple tree. But I can see where their growth would be slow crowded with roots from other trees. I now have 7 on my place, and this is their 3rd year to have acorns. They produce acorns at an earlier age then other trees as they had their first small crop at 7 years of age. I would love to be around when they become huge, but I will never see it. I would love to see an old Burr oak in person, and have only looked at the pictures. I think they are the prettiest tree there is. So feel good about your old tree, as many have sat under it’s branches. Maybe some famous people as well. I enjoyed reading your story.
Hi I found a Nutting cart in a chicago alley it is in beautiful condition. Someone removed the orginal wheel hardware. I have the 4 corner hardware. The cart has spec in a circle. The Nutting stencil is still on the cart. I believe this is a longer cart. I want to use my cart as a coffee table. How do I know what hardware belongs on this cart? My name is Chris Donda my cell is 773-807-1451.
E-mail me some photos and I should be able to help you out. WunderWoods@sbcglobal.net.
Hi! My name is Maria, and I’m just beginning my journey into wood and woodworking (I’ve been making small things like hair forks and pendants for a bit over a year now), and I’m also new to WordPress. I was looking around for interesting woodworking blogs to follow, and I found yours, and I think it’s really great and informative. Nice to meet you. =)
M.
Good luck on your new blog.
This is so interesting! I’ve never heard anything from inside the sawmilling world, and it’s really enchanting.
Thanks Maria.
Where do you get the Trans Tint products? Thanks so much for these posts. I enjoy all of them.
They are available from Woodcraft or Rockler.
Thank you for your advice, it’s been invaluable. We’re restoring the 140 year old pine beams in our vaulted ceiling, which were painted with a thick dark reddish stain. Now stripped back they have texture and colour variations galore but are disturbingly bright orange. Can you recommend something to tone it down please? We’re aiming for a medium oak finish leaving the grain and darker aged marks visible. Many thanks
Whenever I am working on matching colors I keep around different colors of TransTint stains. I use them to push colors towards a color I want or to kill colors I don’t want. To kill the orange color, you will need to stain with a color that is opposite on the color wheel, in this case, blue/green. Once you kill the orange, then you can stain a darker brown, if necessary.
Check on Ebay under Nutting carts or Railroad carts. There is also a company in Virginia you can find by search- Lineberry carts, he has a lot of various parts but is high on price.
I am under it right now. Remarkable. I am on vacation and don’t have my forestry tape to measure the DBH.
Here in Mn, the Siberian elm is a decent tree. Thus far, it has been hardier than its cousin and is not susceptible to classic elm disease. Almost everyone dislikes American elm. It is second class to oak, and dies too often…it volunteers everywhere. I saw it in a floor in Wisconsin and thought it surpassed oak for beauty. And, of course, in England, lots of things were built with elm. And I am not sure if it was ‘American’ elm , but I doubt it…thanks for the post.
Dan,
Thanks for the input. I was at an arborist conference last year and there was a lot of talk about Siberian elm from a presenter from Minnesota. Siberian elm was brought in to replace dying American elm trees. It does not die from Dutch Elm disease, but has other issues that make it less desirable as a tree. It is brittle and will easily break in storms and it is often tormented by other issues that leave it looking less than perfectly healthy all year long. The presenter from Minnesota, specifically addressing power line issues and breaking branches, put Siberian elm at the top of the “Do Not Plant” list.
Both American and Siberian elms are prolific at spreading seeds, which helps them pop up in unplanned locations.
I think American elm is one of the prettiest woods around and I am a big fan of Siberian elm too. I often recommend them to my customers for woodworking projects.
I have no input on elms from England since I have no official experience with them, but I am going to put my money on them not being American elm.
Good evening, interesting topic. I have a cutting board, made by those guys; http://boardsbyjoel.com/hardwoodRounds.htm
What do you think is there process??
Cheers
David
My guess is one of the chemical treatments, either PEG or Pentcryl. I doubt Joel will be in a hurry to share the info with us.
What? No shiny plastic!? Fabulous. Sarah
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I was wondering if it would help to carefully 1/4 the cut end thru the middle (pie cuts), let it dry and then clean up the cut edges and “reassemble” the round. I know that even with thin kerf cut it would be hard to realign the grain- but it might give a stable result. Any ideas?
Reassembling pieces after they are dry will work, since most of the shrinkage happens during the initial drying. It will require two pieces that match that can be split before drying and then machined and reassembled after drying. The results can be more than satisfactory, but still a lot of work for what everyone assumes is just one cut.
I love this natural play structure! Do you have any natural playground structures for sale?
Where might I find info related to stopping bleeding sap from pine lumber?
I have no official sources off the top of my head. I will tell you from my research and from personal experience that the only way to stop bleeding sap from pine lumber is too kiln dry the lumber to a high temperature and it will still not be enough for large pockets of sap. If you are talking about sap bleeding through finishes like paint, shellac is the trick. Shellac or products containing shellac (like Kilz) will seal in the sap and keep it from bleeding through the paint.
Reblogged this on b19y and commented:
A great write up on what you’re actually doing when you acclimate hardwood floors and trim.
Wood flooring requires room to expand after installation as seasonal increases in humidity occur, especially across the grain. At least 1/2″ of clearance around the perimeter of a room is needed. I have seen the consequence of inadequate clearance (buckling) and it is not attractive.
All of this acclimating talk is no substitute for good woodworking practice. You still have to let the wood move and leaving a gap along the walls in a hardwood floor installation is a great example. Thanks Jim
Visit a stringed instrument shop and the humidity will always be strictly controlled. Usually well bellow 50%.
here’s yo a most happy and productive new year! Sarah
Healthy New Year to you.
so, WHY is elm your favorite wood?
Scott,
You are truly an artist. Happy New Year to you, Chris and Mira!
You had a good year! I’ll try to have one as well. Many pieces to build for family. Have a great year.
Matthew Laposa 636-219-4597 Sent from my iPad
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Thanks Scott, I enjoy reading your post and seeing your projects. Happy New Year!
Beautiful Scott! Yes, please post more pictures of your work.
Happy New Year!
Im a car painter and would like to use my spray gun for a furniture project. What tip size should i use for lacquer? Would u suggest thinning it and how much. I use a 1.4 tip for car paint and clear coat with a reducer.
It’s the same setup for either one. I use my gun for painting metal parts with car paint as well and don’t change the tip. 1.4 is what I use too.
Excellent job with this method, Scott. I’ve used this method (borrowed from watching a granite crew) before and have often wondered if I was crazy for doing so. This post really validates the technique and proves that the results can be outstanding. I like that it cuts down on unnecessary waste, heaviness, and cost. My customers appreciate those same aspects:)
I hope your 2015 is excellent and filled with 100% satisfied clients and net profits!
Mike
barndogmill.com
Beautiful work Scott!
Is the “beam” in the first picture 3 pieces of wood glued up to hide a steel beam? Where did you put the glue line?
The beam was just for decoration. It was a solid beam that I hollowed out from the top with a chainsaw and a milling attachment with multiple passes. I have also done the same thing with multiple passes using the circular blade on the Lucas mill. It ends up being like a glued up beam of 1″ thick lumber in weight, but still looks like the original. It takes awhile to hollow out, but it makes the install easier and allows me to install a dry piece of wood.
Scott,
I’m finally getting my health and act together and expect the first pick-up truck that I’ve ever owned to arrive shortly. Question, would you run 3 – 2×10 KD SFP boards through your sander for me? Both sides .
if you give a mouse a cookie
Very nice work. What if I wanted to make the entire table top 1 1/2″ thick? Any suggestions for filling in the interior of the underside?
That was a countertop and the middle was built up with 3/4″ thick plywood for support over the cabinets. The middle could be built up with solid wood as long as the grain ran in the same direction. When using plywood to build up the middle make sure to let the countertop move across the grain.
Couple novice questions,love this method.
So no glueing the top to the plywood? Would you suggest using slotted holes and screws with washers?
How would you approach an undermount sink with this method. This is not optional according to warden. Already bought wood so I need to make it happen!
Attach the wood to the plywood with slotted screw holes and washers so the top can float. The slots need to be perpendicular to the direction of the grain.
An undermount sink will work fine. You can do it single thickness at the sink, or do the same thing as the outside edges and roll the inside edges. Make sure to use a waterproof glue.
Do you still have carts for sale? 678-974-9643 Patricia
I only have a few that I am selling locally. They aren’t in great shape and not worth the cost of shipping.
Where can I buy one of those carts??????
Nick,
I am only selling the carts that I currently have from my store. I am not shipping them because my inventory is rather lackluster right now and will require lots of work to get back into shape. They just aren’t worth the cost to ship them.
I’m interested in purchasing a cart what is the lowest price you will take? I’m on a fixed income but love to refinish things
I have carts for $100 right now. They are in need of repair and are larger than the standard carts. They can be cut down in size, but will still sit taller at about 19″ high. For $100, I will make sure you get all of the components for a complete cart, but you will definitely need to do some work. I don’t ship them, so you will need to be able to pick them up at my shop.
It’s a great look. Nice work
A furniture maker just delivered a cherry table darkened with lye, finished with rubbed tung oil. It’s much darker than other pieces in my home. Is there any way to lighten it, reverse the chemical action of the lye?
Ann,
Sorry to hear that. I don’t know of a way to lighten the cherry that has been darkened with lye. Perhaps your other cherry furniture is fairly new and will darken to match (that’s me just looking for a bright side).
Thanks for getting back to me; I won’t shoot the messenger! My guy says the piece might lighten a bit over time. We will see. Meantime, it will go in a room far from the existing cherry pieces which, by the way, are a mix of Thomas Moser originals and knockoffs. [The new table is very like the TM hall table.]
Would you like to see a beaut my Dad (93 yrs old) cut out of a tree. Horseshoe and a old pipe in log. Might be selling?
I would like to see it, hopefully not in one that I am milling.
Hello,
Do you still have carts for sale? If so, could you please send me some pictures? Thank you very much!
Gloria,
All of the carts I have currently require a lot of work to make into a useable cart or furniture. Since they aren’t very valuable in their current state I am only selling them locally (they aren’t worth the price of shipping) or using them to make furniture for my woodworking customers.
Brilliant, Scott. I never would have thought of that.
Thanks David. It just worked out so nice that the carts are the right height.
Scott that is so cool I want one!!, you eluded to the price do you have another cart if so how much?
I do have a few more of that size. The cost is $1,100.
This is recycling at it’s very best. Now I want one.
Me too!
Some years ago I found a “captive walnut” in a piece of Missouri walnut that I was resawing. I was lucky enough to saw the nut pretty much right in half. I made two nice box turkey calls with this unique wood. Was very pleased to see that you too found a treasure. I will send you a picture.
Looks like a crown, of sorts… perhaps a logo could be created from it?
Great entry area piece. Do you have anything similar with storage under the bench?
Ray,
I haven’t done anything with storage below. It is a good idea because those carts sit pretty high and there is some room below. Additional storage will, however, make it look less like a cart.
Do you by chance have any parts still available?
Sorry, I have a very few carts and parts left that I am selling locally only.
great thank you very much, from what i’m reading recently the waterlox finish SEEMS to be the most long term hands off option, do you agree with this and if not I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Just wanted to drop you a line and Thank you for your posts. You have a wealth of great information and I appreciate you sharing it. I live in Texas but visit the St. Louis area regularly, hopefully I’ll get to purchase some wood from you someday. Sincerely, Brian Houser
Sent from my iPad
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Thanks for the kind words Brian. I hope to see you in St. Louis soon.
This may help me some. I have some red cedar logs that I am trying to find out what they are worth. I had no idea how to figure the board feet. Someone said a dollar a board foot would be close. Anny idea ?
Gene,
I don’t sell cedar logs, so I am not sure of the going price. A dollar per board foot sounds high to me. I would guess more like 40¢ per board foot. I know I wouldn’t pay a lot because they are usually pretty small and a lot of work per board foot to produce the lumber.
Yes after more research I am thinking $1.00 per board foot sawed and $ 0.35 to $ 0.40 for the log. Thanks for your in put
I’m having logs milled for 25cents a board foot
I’ve had a Timesaver for about 25 years. This process does work. But here is another technique when you are getting low on rubber on the drum. You can use JB weld to fill the groove. Then hand work with a file to get the glue line smooth to the rest of the drum. You then can do a fine grit pass to dress it all down to the same. The drum rubber has grooves spiraled around it, and the glue line is sectioned when hitting the wood. There is also still rubber beneath the JB Weld glue line. Works great for over 12 years now.
That is very cool, Scott. Is it your own design?
It is my own design. I borrowed the basics from Whitechapel. Their design was more utilitarian, with straight parts. The curves were inspired by my friend and my customer.
wow. this is really spectacular.
Good stuff Scott! I love the curves, the walnut and the through tenons!
That is super cool! Looks like a fun project.
Matthew Laposa 636-219-4597 Sent from my iPhone
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Beautiful! What kind of finish did you use for outside weather
This my be my favorite project yet. Beautiful.
Hi Scott!
Nice Job on the bell frame! How does it sound?
A bit of Liberty Bell Trivia – The original bell was cast by Whitechapel Bell Foundry, but it cracked on the 1st test ringing in 1751. Philadelphia metalworkers John Pass & John Stow (PASS AND STOW is cast into the Liberty Bell) melted down that bell and recast the Liberty Bell. This bell did not crack until the 1840’s after 90 years of hard use.
Scott,
Another fantastic project – That is one heck of a dinner bell! The whole neighborhood is going to show up!
Thanks for sharing the story behind it – That is what makes the project meaningful.
When i was growing up I lived in Michigan ,my family and I would go into the woods to find ,mushrooms cabbage,ad a few other things,i would eat the leaves of the sassafrass very good
You have such a creative eye. I never would have thought about doing that. They are AWESOME>
WOW!!
I see some abstract pieces there as well
Good stuff.
But trees don’t heal, they seal!
what finish do you recommend for cherry furniture to be used outside? I am replacing the slats on a bench.
Joe,
It really doesn’t need anything, but it will turn gray. If you are looking for something with some sheen I am a fan of Sikkens Cetol Door and Window, now called Proluxe. It builds a finish like polyurethane, but lasts longer. It is still a losing battle though. It needs to be maintained every other year and will eventually fail if not maintained. I use it for doors regularly.
This is a great post. Thank you. How would you approach the project if the stone wall for the fireplace area was not flat?
I would need more information on what part wasn’t flat. If you have any specifics, I would be glad to address them.
For example if it’s brick. I guess all you can do is let it be where it wants to be. If there is a slight gap, there isn’t much you can do.
If there is a big gap you can either chisel out the back of the mantel or chisel off the high spot in the brick. Both are easy to do. A gap between the mantel and brick needs to be quite large before it looks unsightly.
I have the same problem. When you mount the mantle onto preexisting rough and uneven stone, won’t them be a gap between the mantle and the stone that will be visible on all 4 sides of the mantel. Do we have to sand the stone to create a flatter surface so the mantle sits more flush to the stone. Thanks
The gap is less of an issue than you might think. Even a big gap is easily reduced by chipping away any stone causing a problem (it’s usually just one or two), or removing some wood out of the back of the mantle at the same spot. I am pretty picky and it takes a really big gap on uneven stone to look bad.
So worm holes are a good thing? We have a log bed that has these holes in it and I thought it was a bad thing. We can sell it without feeling guilty? When does the wood get these worms – when it’s still in tree form, or after the bed has been made? When my husband got the bed, those holes were already in it and just looking at the holes kind of made my skin crawl.
Knots, cracks and worm holes in a log headboard and footboard are fine? I’m trying to sell our king size headboard and footboard, but then decided against it after seeing those holes, thinking it’s better off going into a bonfire.
Bug holes in wood are a part of life. Many happen in log form, but some do show up in finished furniture (though much less common). Your log furniture probably had the bugs in it when it was a log. After a tree dies or is cut down (and dies) it doesn’t take long for the bugs to move in. If your log furniture came from salvaged wood in any way there is a good chance that the tree was standing dead, bugs moved in, and then the log was milled. Kiln-drying kills all of the bugs.
Thank you very much Scott! I appreciate your response and detailed information.
Have you any experience with tigerwood used for decks? ( I guess considered a Brazilian hardwood?). I am trying to find a good stain/sun protector to keep the color of the wood versus the grayling that has occurred. Wondering if this product would work?
Thanks
Terri Halloran
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As long as the finish is maintained it will keep the wood looking close to new. The color will darken, but it will still look like finished wood instead of gray driftwood. The problem is the maintenance part. On a deck, it most likely won’t happen at regular enough intervals, since you have so much to cover, and once it fails you will have to sand and start over to make it look good, which also probably won’t happen, so you will be left with a 1/2 gray driftwood, 1/2 new wood and a lot of peeling finish. Decks also suffer from the fact that a good percentage of the wood is in a spot that is hard reach and cover. I wouldn’t use this on a deck, and I wouldn’t recommend anything that forms a film finish on decks. I would recommend oil-based semi-transparent deck stains in your situation. They will not keep the original color of the wood, but they don’t peel and you will never have to sand and start over.
I have given up on any film finishes for outdoor use. It is just too much headache to strip and reapply in a few years. I put a beautiful Epifanes Marine Wood Gloss on a bench. It was pretty amazing. My wife was in awe. I put it outside in May and in August-hailstorm. Six hours later finish was gone and a no build finish was on it. I think the type of exposure is a paramount factor. Sun, rain, hail, ocean spray, temp swings, highway dirt-all these and others are really hard on film finishes. Dust in the house is no comparison.
I used Messmers UV.
this is amazing! I bought an adze and I have a few questions:
1) how much do you recommend doing to the wood? The entire thing and all sides?
2) what is the best way to sharpen the adze?
I use the adze on all visible surfaces.
I sharpen the adze with a 12″ disc sander to remove big nicks and a sharpening stone or sandpaper spray adhesived to a wood block for fine sharpening.
When you say topcoat, are you referring to laquer? And what color did you use to tint your topcoats?
Topcoat can be any clear coat used as the final finish (not stain or sealer). I often use lacquer, but it could also be polyurethane, varnish, shellac, etc. On these beams I did use lacquer. For tinting the topcoat, I use TransTint dye stains. They can be used with water, alcohol or lacquer thinner, but do not mix with oil-based products like mineral spirits.
I cannot thank you enough. First, for your amazing post that inspired me to try to create something similar. Second, your your help and guidance. Thanks!
How colorfast is the Transtint? Once topcoat is applied will sunbleaching become an issue with time?
It will fade like everything else with exposure to the sun, depending on how much it gets. I haven’t had any jobs where it was an issue. With that said, most of my work is in wine cellars and not in atrium situations to give it a good test. If it is in a window, expect fading. If it isn’t in a window, fading shouldn’t be a problem.
Hopefully this is my last question lol. I cannot thank you enough for your help. My beams are constructed and fitted to the ceiling and I am now ready to stain them.
Having never done anything like this before, I was wondering whether I need to wipe the stain off with a towel after each application? Or, do you stain and leave it alone? I don’t have a sprayer, so I’ll be painting it on.
Finally, do you suggest I paint over the edges of dark mission brown with the medium brown and honey Amber? or do I keep the mission brown and honey Amber to the middle and let it bleed to the edges?
Thanks!
Fyi…We fitted them and will be taking them down to stain:)
The Transtint stains work like watercolors. Think of it as a watercolor painting (it wouldn’t hurt if you have painted with watercolors before). I paint the dark edges, let them dry a bit, and then start to do the lighter colors. The dark and light colors are going to overlap and start to mix. If you are getting hard lines where the colors change then it dried a little too long. If the colors completely mix and the color change is hard to see then everything is too wet. The good news is there is no right or wrong way to do it. Just work with your colors leaning towards the lighter end of the spectrum. You can always add more color, but it is harder to remove it.
When I work on the beams, I do them all a little bit different to make them look more natural. I usually have out a bucket of water, different-sized brushes, rags, hairdryers and sometimes even paint. Usually the shop get very messy because I am not scared to let the stain and paint fly. I remember one day we were making new wood look like old barn boards and we were throwing around white paint to look like bird poop, and even using some greens to look like mold or moss.
The secret for me is to not be scared. If you only do one thing it will look fake. If you do two things it will look less fake, and so on, until it looks like something real. Worst case scenario, you will have to do some sanding to undo the work you don’t like. Just try to do less of that.
Reblogged this on ourhousenow and commented:
Love this!
i found an 8ft long 50″ silver maple trunk out at the city tree dump, and had it hauled home, i then quartered the beast which about killed me… then to my nephews portable sawmill. there was no rot at all, and ended up with many 4/4 and 6/4 boards 22-24 inches wide, some quarter sawn, several rift and i worked to not have anything flat sawn. gorgeous with about 80% of the yield with anywhere from moderate to severe tiger striping… incredible log that one was… it has been air drying for about a year now and about ready to bring some inside to finish drying enough for a few projects… i have no interest in anything but big silvers from now on! its like hunting for gold for me. lots of guys like oak and of coarse walnut is king around here, so there is no competition for silver maples. 🙂
Scott,
I just purchased a large slab of Walnut to make a desk. It is natural edge and has been kiln dried. My question is how to finish it. I don’t want to “fill” the cracks or knot holes but rather finish over them so they stand out. I want to finish the natural edge without removing the bark. So I guess what I’m asking is what is the best product and method to get a nice firm finish so I can use it for a desk without worrying about marring it with a pen or bumping the bark and having it fall off? You said something about spraying in this article. Can you give me some insights? Treat me like a beginner and be as descriptive as possible. Thank you!!!
Edd
First, we normally take the bark off because it tends to fall off on its own. Plus, it is usually banged up from handling and not all there. If it is all there and in tact you can try to keep it, but it will knock off easily, especially walnut. Something with a hard bark, like hickory will have a much better chance. Everyone I personally know takes off the walnut bark (David Stine and Martin Goebel, for example).
For the finish, many topcoats will work. Polyurethane for floors is a fine choice and can be applied easily. Waterlox works well too and is easy to apply. Both of these take a long time to completely dry, which is why I use Klearvar, a very durable two-part conversion varnish that needs to be sprayed. It goes on nicely and dries quickly. Remember that all wood finishes are just basically a coating of plastic and none are super hard or they would be too brittle and crack when the wood moves.
For finishing, I would sand the entire top flat and smooth to 150 grit. Apply your fist coat of finish and sand with 320 grit. Apply your next coat and sand again with 320. Reapply coats to desired or prescribed level of finish and call it a day. I usually hand sand the live edges after the bark is removed, also with 150 grit.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask. I will be glad to help.
Those look very good. I’m in the process of making some beams out of cedar. When you say that use sanded. What grit sand paper do you use. I’ve used a wire wheel and some 220 grit. Does that make it to smooth for the way you did that mantle?
On raw wood, in my shop nothing but 150 for finish sanding. I might use a more coarse grit when shaping a piece, but 150 other than that. 320 between finish coats. A wire wheel will make a pattern in the wood that you may or may not want. It isn’t for finishing the wood.
Worked at Andersen Windows for many years milling Ponderosa pine..it is easy to recall the odor of thousands of feet of pine getting milled. Pine got its bad reputation from misuse. People still use pine and its cousins today in exterior applications for which pine is unsuited. And the same is true for the denting issue. If you make a pine table top and don’t bury it in a durable finish; it is going to dent and change. Pine is beautiful used right. Thanks for the post.
Kerosene works well and is heavily use in industrial applications to deal with pine pitch. It can be cheaper than paint thinner and is less likely to catch fire I believe.
I generally don’t use pine for my boxes, but that’s because I charge a premium price for them, so I like to use premium reclaimed or recycled lumber. Using 5,000 year old bog oak or 150 year old white oak from an old house on the family farm or using 50,000 year old Ancient Kauri wood carries a much higher selling value than 1 year old Eastern White Pine.
I do manage to still use quite a bit of pine in the shop, though. I use it (and poplar) when I’m mocking up a new box idea to help figure out design issues and construction techniques. I use it for shop fixtures. All of the pine lumber I use for those things comes from the big box stores. I try and swing by the stores nearest my work and home about once a month or so. I dig through the stacks of wide 8′ pine boards, looking for riftsawn or quartersawn wood with minimal knots and no twist, bow, or cup. Most of the time, I walk away empty-handed, but every now and then I find a board or two that fits the bill. I buy it and add it to my stack.
I do have two boards of 10′ long white pine that is a full 1″ thick and 18″ wide. It was pulled out of a 100+ year old house up in Massachusetts. The guy I bought them from said he found them in his dad’s house when they were cleaning it out. He thought he might be able to use them, so he loaded them onto the moving truck and brought them back to Missouri. After they sat in the garage for a year, he realized he wasn’t ever going to use them, so he listed them on Craig’s List for $50. I saw the listing an hour after it was posted and picked them up that next Saturday. (That was the first of many large pieces of wood I’ve been able to fit into my Toyota Venza.) I’m not going to use that wood for boxes, though. I was thinking it might make a nice traveling Anarchist’s Toolchest…
The picture shows a utility knife blade but if you use single edge razor blade (cheaper) and put the blade in a painter’s retractable razor blade holder (used for scraping paint off windows) it’s a lot easier on the fingers and hands since the holding surface is bigger. The holder also lets you use a small whetstone to put a new edge on the blade pretty quickly and you can round the corners of the blade so they don’t dig into the surface.
I have a question I hope you can help me with: I just cut down a 60 foot silver maple in my backyard and retained seven 6 foot logs that I hope to use for landscaping. I’m wondering what I should do to avoid them splitting/ cracking. This wood will just be used as logs in the backyard. So would coating the ends with Thompson’s water seal be a good idea or something like that?
I don’t think anything will help. Silver maple logs will not last long outside. Within a couple of years you will see significant degrade, especially with ground contact. Sealing them doesn’t help because they are already wet on the inside and sealing them just traps in the water.
This is really helpful. So, can you paint a picture of what “degrade” looks like? Will the logs mostly get big cracks ,or the wood start decomposing on the outside? (Or completely fall apart?)
My thought was have the logs rest just above the ground (putting a couple notched logs underneath), as well as cut a bunch of different height stumps (sitting on the ground) that could create “stairs” or sitting areas, creating a kind of kid-friendly space for playing, climbing, hanging around.
I’m curious now what’s likely to happen to the logs. BTW, I live in the Chicago area, so we have cold winters and hot n humid summers…
Thanks for this–this knowledge you’re sharing is very much appreciated…
Cracks will happen no matter what. The degrade will be the wood decomposing and falling apart. Even white oak and walnut logs, both known for durability will start to degrade on the outside in a similar time frame. They will last longer if you can get them dry and keep them dry.The logs need minimal ground contact and the bark should be removed. The bark holds in water and promotes the decay. If you can do both of those things, the logs will last for much longer.
hi, can you please tell me what sanding sealer you used and do you know if old masters (oil based) sanding sealer can be tinted with oil stain? Thanks
I use ML Campbell products, and I use their lacquer sanding sealer. Oil-based sanding sealer should be able to be tinted with oil-based stain. I use the lacquer sanding sealer because it dries quickly.
Great post. I’m using this technique to distress wood for a door I’m making. I love the transtint dyes, but I couldn’t find ML Campbell products near me. I tried using Zinsser Bulls Eye sanding sealer, but it ambers the product too much. I like General Finishes products, but their sanding sealer is acrylic and non-tintable. I was thinking of using Deft or Qualalacq sanding sealer under the appropriate lacquer. I was wondering if you had any thoughts about or insight into these options.
I haven’t tried General’s sanding sealer, but Transtint works with everything except oil-based products (mineral spirits) as far as I know, so I would give that a shot. Otherwise, the Deft should be fine and not sure about the Qualalaq. I have used the Deft with no issues, but never tried the Qualalaq.
Neat! They ought to be some really nice tables! Just make sure neither one lands on your toe!
I love sycamore for turning. I’ve made many large bowls out of it and it looks particularly beautiful when there is some spalting.
Hi Scott, Great post as usual. It reminded me that I never sent you a photo of the finished tables that you helped me with. See attached.  They are in the parish life center lobby by the tv cabinet I made with the same tree. A good show and tell story if I can ever get free on a Thursday night and get to a guild meeting. Happy Woodworking! ! Dave Vitale
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More pix
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Very large! Should be a beautiful piece when completed.
Matthew Laposa 636-219-4597 Sent from my iPhone
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Hi Scott,
There is a live sycamore tree on my street that is almost that big, maybe ¾. The log in your pictures is oblong, or oval. The tree on our street is closer to round and roughly the diameter of the narrow dimension of your log.
Best regards,
John M. Bronson | Project Engineer | White-Rodgers
Emerson Climate Technologies | 8100 West Florissant Avenue | St. Louis, MO 63136
T +1 314 553 3341
john.bronson@emerson.com
To better serve our customers and industry partners, Emerson Climate Technologies has integrated its White-Rodgers and Flow Controls businesses.
We love it! Thanks so much for the perfect piece of art for us.
Itâs beautiful â Nice job!!!
That is really cool!!
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I live in Pueblo Colorado elm is every where. Going to try it out as table tops and doors in my house I am building!
You will love the look of it.
So thankful I found your post. I own a small business and redo (paint) furniture. I pretty much am commission pieces only and need to knock them out pretty quickly because I always have a waiting list. I have a Graco True coat II, and am tired of it clogging up and totally messing up a piece when it randomly decides to spit out large drops and stop working mid project. I am willing to pay for something super nice that can spray lacquers and oil. Looking for something easy to use/clean since I am going through different paint colors each week.. I work inside a small studio, and don’t need to move it all around. What would you suggest? Thank you!
Piper
Piper,
Almost any good quality HVLP system will make your painting more enjoyable. As mentioned in my post, I currently run a Graco HVLP with a pressurized gun and I am happy with it. The pressure pot makes for a smaller gun that can be used at any angle, both very good points. Before this gun I had a couple Fuji guns, which also worked great. A couple friends of mine use the smaller system with no complaints. I used the Q4 because it had more power and could spray heavier materials. I have used the Apollo systems and they are great too. You will be happy with any of them. The best thing about the HVLP systems is that they are easily portable. I take mine with me all of the time.
Very nice piece Scott. I applaud your insight on how to use it!
Hi Scott,
A bit of Siberian Elm background: after theDutch Elm disease killed off many of America’s English elms in the 1940s or 1950s?, tree lovers sought a disease-resistant replacement windbreak, especially with memoirs of the 1930s Dust Bowl still fresh. (Dutch Elm disease was so named because its pathology was discovered by a pair of Dutch women, not because the elms were Dutch or the disease was Dutch.) My grandfather hosted meetings in the 1940s promoting the planting of Siberian elms, which can still be seen around Florissant.
What no one foresaw was just how weedy these trees are, and how aggressively they spread. The Missouri Dept. of Conservation now says it’s a weed, “Don’t plant it!”
You probably know this already, I just write it for those who haven’t heard it yet.
Best, Wes
What did you do for end checking/cracks? Epoxy n wood flour?
The cracks were filled with epoxy tinted with TransTint dark mission brown dye stain to match the color of the knots.
Dear Scott, Just finished a photo series of live tree crotches, had a lot of fun doing it and researched your site to help write my explanation of the series of 20. Inverted a crotch from a grey birch and two sycamores as a trio which made them look like three pairs of human pants. Thanks for educating me on the more practical uses of tree crotches.
Regards, Barbara
Do you know what color was used on those beams on this page? I am about to start a faux wood beam job with some ponderosa pine. Having not worked with pine before trying to get a feel for what different stains will look like. Also what top coat is on those?
I am a fan of TransTint Dark Mission Brown, sometimes mixed with a little Black, sometimes mixed with a little Medum Brown, which is more red than the Dark Mission Brown. On the beams I use lacquer. It goes on fast and doesn’t need to be especially durable since it gets no wear or water.
What do you mix your trans tint in to use lacquer as the top coat. Been wanting to experiment with the trans tints but was unsure of its compatibility with the lacquer that I use.
Width is also an important issue. I had a sawyer out awhile back and he did a poor job by going too wide the entire time. It looks nice coming off the mill, but never makes it to the rack. Usually between regular defects, drying defects, pith, flat grains, etc, the boards would have turned out better rift or quartersawn narrower. Walnut is the only species I’ve seen that tolerates wide cutting.
Width is an issue. These days I am cutting lots of slabs. The wider the slabs the thicker I cut them. On a crazy grain wide slab it isn’t uncommon to lose 1″ of thickness getting things straightened out.
I have a question…You mention several times “flatten and plane”. I understand the “plane” but what do you do to flatten a board if it is needed before planing besides stacking and stickering it properly?
Kent,
The flatten part refers to removing wood to make the surface flat, for example removing high spots. This could be done with a router sled, a hand plane, a jointer, or even with the sawmill. The key is to straighten things out before worrying about the surface quality, which is more of the planing aspect of “flatten and plane”.
Was wondering what you are putting on the sides of the bar? I am about to do a bar slab as well. Thank you.
I sand the live edge and then stain it to make everything consistent. I sand it lightly again to make it look more natural. The final color ranges in brightness depending on how much I sand it. I usually have to work a little extra on the edges because they take the most abuse before the log is milled.
I, too, just got “introduced” to fisheye – and on a table that I have refinished before – albeit 10 years ago. I am guessing that the main difference this time is I tried to use an epoxy resin finish, which is what fisheyed.
Question – I applied a thin coat on the second attempt to refinish and got the fisheye again. I assume I need to strip it all back down to bare wood, right? Then, wipe down with the naptha, restain and then apply the fisheye preventer to the epoxy?
Wish I had seen your blog before starting this project 🙂
Tom,
I think you should remove anything that fisheyed on you, which sounds like you might be starting over. If the fisheye isn’t too bad, meaning it isn’t compromising the adhesion of the overall finish, I would try sanding the finish with 320 to flatten out the fisheyes and then clean the surface with naphtha, then lacquer thinner and then recoat. It may work depending on how much residue is actually on the surface. Know when you are doing this that there is a good chance that you will be starting over completely, but it won’t take to long to try it.
Great post. I’m in process of doing just this with limited construction knowledge. I drilled 5/8″ holes thru stone 6″ deep using hammer drill but can’t tell what (wood or metal) is on the other side. Is 6″ enough? The mantel I’m using is 13.5″ in width at it’s widest point (12″ avg). Also, the concrete stakes won’t go into the hole. 🙁 When I got the stakes at HD, they all had the same diameter so I presume it’s a standardized diameter so not sure why they won’t go other than the obvious. Guess plan tomorrow is to buy bigger bit and try again unless you have better option.
Usually the hole drills bigger in stone because of the vibration and more accurately in wood. A slightly bigger bit will be the answer if the stakes aren’t going in. The void will be filled with epoxy, so it will be fine as long as you can get the stakes in. 6″ is more than enough depth.
Hi Scott! Beautiful stuff you got there! I am an amateur woodworkerl of 20 years, and a chainsaw Miller of white and red oak from my 55 acres and here in Missouri. Do you yourself have a kiln that you will dry wood at a price, or do you contract that to a local kiln here in St Louis or St Charles?
Milling 3 inch thick slabs white oak and allowing to ambient dry takes too much time! I’m planning a future solar kiln, but I’m not convinced of the consistency I might get.
Thanks!
Mitch Pollock
St. Louis, MO
I have my own kilns, but don’t dry for others because I never have enough space myself. Drying thick white oak will take awhile with or without a kiln. I usually skip the thick cutting on oak just for that reason, especially on white oak, which dries so slow. Instead of the solar kiln, I would recommend making it a DH kiln. The chamber construction is similar and you can dry wood all year. I have one running now for a couple thousand feet powered with one fan, a room dehumidifier and a space heater, when needed. It works the same and just as good as my Nyle kiln for very little money. I built the chamber inside my shop with rigid foam as the insulation and structure. I plan to do the same thing for future kilns.
Outstanding. I love knowing the answer to a question I had not thought of. Happy new year, Sarah
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Nice sketchup work!
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Thanks – I have granddaughters and this sounds like a great project.
Did you paint the dots on them or create a dimple in the wood? I’m thinking a dremel with a bur removal tool could quickly make a dimple that would be easily repeatable.
No dots or dimples here. We just build ’em up and knock ’em down. I like the Dremel idea though, especially if mounted to a CNC router.
Hi Scott – will this lye treatment work on other woods, such as fir? I’m replacing some pieces of fir on my 120 year old interior staircase, and I’d love for my new fir to match the orangey, aged color of the antique fir…
It does work on other woods, but not necessarily in the great way that it does on cherry. I have tried it on white oak, for example, and it changed the color by darkening it, but it didn’t produce a color that looked natural for oak. I haven’t tried it on fir, but I would bet that it will work. It is definitely worth a try, especially since the colors are so similar. Let me know the results.
With all the water based finishes-grain raising is a bad par…
I found this site by looking for doyle log scale. I have a large (48″ bark to bark) English walnut (Western Pa.) and am tired of cleaning up the dead branches that freeze back and fall off. I wanted to get an estimate of BF. Enjoyed photos thanks!!
Board Feet is a measure of volume, so you need the diameter on the skinny end of the log and the length of the log to figure out the bd. ft. The scale posted on my website should work for you, since I assume that your walnut tree is not over 44″ on the skinny end. If it is, then you have a ginormous tree. Also, you are calling it English walnut. I haven’t seen it to verify, but they are usually American black walnut.
How do you secure the log?
Sometimes I throw a wedge under it if it is uncooperative, but I try not to. It is better if both ends are free to fall apart when the cut is finished. Just make sure to finish the cut at the ends, so your legs aren’t under the pieces when they come apart.
What’s your process for making the initial rip cut down the log? I can’t picture how you’d hold it to allow the bar to pass through.
I get the log off of the ground and on 4x4s to cut all the way through. If it is wider than my bar, I cut half way through, flip it over and then cut the other half.
I had a small piece of spalted sycamore that I turned into a beautiful bowl and it’s my favorite wood now. Once the spalting begins it makes it a little wonky to work but it’s worth it.
Your video production quality is quite admirable, sure you don’t want to do some art direction again? ;>)
Thanks. My wife thinks about it now and again (all the time).
Scott thank you for sharing it’s quite a tree you’re going to have fun with that
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Great video. Thanks for letting me come along.
Vinny from Columbia ILL
I loved your blog about silver maple. I trust your jugement about trees & wood since I have experience with getting some nice beams & wide plank pine flooring from you in the past.
I have a beautiful silver maple with a 25 ft trunk! I love the tree, but it is now putting my house & 2 neighboring houses at risk. It has some nice knots in the trunk & I think it would make some beautiful, quite large boards.
If it needs to leave the earth, I can’t think of a better person for it to go to than you, so you
can do something wonderful with it. I would also like a few boards for a headboard to remember my beloved tree.
Let e know when it is time to remove it. I am sure we can make some nice lumber out of that tree.
That was a great article. Thanks for taking the time to write it and share your knowledge with the public.
Thanks Chris. I wish I had extra time to do more of them.
That is beautiful work. I needed a great tutorial like this one.
Question. How did you attachthe beam to the ceiling. And how did you hide how you did it?
Or did you use decorative lag bolts?
Wood blocks get mounted to the ceiling and the beams slide over the blocks. The beams are attached to the blocks with trim screws though the beams from the side. The holes can then be filled, but they are small and usually disappear into the look of the rough beams and don’t require filler.
Thank you for the quick response! I will post my pictures as soon as I have completed the project! Though I am sure they will not compare with yours.
Thanks for the article. It has convinced me to try and keep some of the large silver maple in my backyard, just have to convince whoever cuts it down to leave me some large sections and find a sawmill.
I am so glad I stumbled upon your site! I love it! I own a personal custom sawing place in Indiana and we only cut what we need or will need for projects and can tell you some history on many trees! I just cut a pine down that my partners grandfather planted for a client needing wide boards! They love having a picture of the tree for their project and to be able to tell the story to their children! Keep on! I would love to see your shop and more custom things you do!
I wrote you a nice comment and it was lost somehow.
You are getting limb stock. I would never order the walnut and only buy from a place that will allow you to select from stock. Walnut limbstock is full of knots, has tons of tension that releases on drying, on jointing, on ripping, on storage, etc, would be harder to get riftsawn or better, and would require steaming for yield, and might contain pith (unusable). Trunk stock from walnut has little or no knots, is highly stable, contains little or no pith, and should be almost always riftsawn or better, and would probably be steamed, but would not need steaming for yields. I appreciated your article, but you are the buyer and you need to buy from a place where you can select from the pile or if not, where you can reject the load. Steaming makes walnut look like chocolate milk. It takes out some simply gorgeous hues. Walnut sapwood can be brought into some pieces and even looks good. I’d recommend finding a different small, local sawyer and buying it green and tell the guy you refuse to accept any limbstock. Get it dried and store a nice charge of it, then charge your customers for your efforts. Limb stock is absolute junk-I guarantee that is what you got. Sorry, but if you ever cut a massive walnut tree or two or ten, you learn in a hurry. The worst part about limbstock is it will keep moving after you built it into the fp.
A note of gratitude for your extensive sharing of your extensive knowledge.
Dan,
Thanks for the reply. I don’t think that the majority of the wood that I am purchasing comes from walnut limbs, just low-grade walnut logs. All logs have some lower-grade lumber in the middle, so no matter the quality of the logs, lower-grade lumber will still be cut. The main issue is that the lower-grade lumber, whether cut from a high-grade log or limb stock, can still be sold as higher grade because of the exceptions in the walnut grading rules.
Picking through commercially produced walnut will generate no better results. Board after board will still be the same uninspiring, lower-than-expected quality.
I do have the option of picking through unsteamed walnut that is cut from better logs since I do the cutting, but I often have larger orders that I cannot fill and need to order in lumber. In those cases, I would appreciate a bunk of high-grade walnut made up of lumber that is just as nice as other species. It shouldn’t be necessary to find special producers and pick through board by board, just because it is walnut. It isn’t necessary to do that for other species, and that is the main point of my post.
How beautiful!! I know I run the risk of sounding stupid, but here goes. I have very limited funds just bought the house & we are house poor. I found some red oak glue edged boards at Menard’s that are 3/4″ thick & 6″ wide that are very reasonable. Could I employ the same method as what you used? I worry about warping, As far as building up the underside I’m a little confused if using solid wood the grain needs to run in the same direction, but ply can be perpendicular? Thanks for any guidance.
I don’t see any reason the oak from Menard’s won’t work. I would question “reasonable” though, as their prepackaged wood seems pretty expensive per board ft. In total though, it may not be a lot different for one top. As far as the plywood goes, it is just their to provide additional backing. The counter top needs to be able to move freely side to side on the plywood. Fasten the plywood firmly to the cabinets, but use oversized holes in the plywood to attach the solid wood top to the plywood. Use washers with the screws and only tighten the screws until they start to hold the top in place, which will still allow the side to side movement.
I always enjoy reading all of your posts, it’s a real pleasure when they pop up on my iPad instead of all the spam, junk mail and “political incorrectness “
Hi!
Lovely article, very educational!
Quick question, I have some 5″ thick, 16″ diameter black walnut cookies that have been air drying outside for about 6 months (winter here in Toronto). Basically I am going to resaw them to about 2.5″ thick but I would like the to crack exactly like the picture above. Repeat, I want them to crack 🙂 I was thinking I could maybe add a slit with a hack saw to try and induce it?
Hope you find the time to respond! Cheers!
If you start a crack with a saw cut, it will continue to crack along that line and most likely nowhere else, since all of the stress will be relieved.
Scott has a thorough understanding of the dynamic with Walnut supply vs. demand and the log allocation (veneer vs. lumber). With nearly 30 years in this industry working for a major hardwood products manufacturer, I see evidence of this all the time; the quality goes down and the price goes up. Everything is relative and consumers must adjust their expectations based on what’s available. Or do without.
Thanks for sharing. Ever since seeing the Weinig moulders spinning at 6000 rpms, I have never been interested in being close to spinning machines! No lathes for me either.
We have a shagbark hickory tree that I am wondering if it is good enough for milling. I wanted to attempt a table top out of it. I believe it has been lying on the ground for 3-5 years and seems to be hard in the middle. I have about a 9 ft. length with an average of about 24 inches in diameter. At first I couldn’t see almost any of those little splits in the wood that come from the wood drying out as you look at the end grain, but after moving the log I can see some little splits speckled about all pointing towards the heartwood. Do you think this would be worthy to take to a sawmill if I am trying to make a table top out of the slabs, maybe two 9 ft. long x 18 in. wide x 2 in. thick slabs connected together to make 1 table top 9ft. long x 36 in. wide x 2 in. think?
It is probably no good at this point. Hickory tends to go fast. 3-5 years is probably too long.
i came across your blog while researching the best way to harvest lumber from the silver maple timber in my front yard. im a woodworker and a tree hugger so im in love with everything this tree has to give. Though ive heard my master-gardener girlfriend, refer to this as a trash tree, i had no idea the disdain held for it in the general populous.
I was very glad to read your blog post here and your hardness scale rating chart really did it for me…..i was thinking, “am i crazy? is everyone really saying they wouldnt even frame a house from silver maple?”
so tomorrow i go buy my first chainsaw and harvest my first lumber. next stop…the jionter.
final distination….my family dinning room.
thanks for the posting
Not trash at all, but don’t tell everybody.
I’ve been woodworking for 30 years. I had a lathe tricked out with a duplicator. I buildt one table and it sat in the corner of my workshop unused for about a year and a half so I sold it. I have thought about making a pole lathe, but none of my upcoming project need one. I’m sure I’ll get one some day. Your bench looks great. 🙂
I have done this many times. I have a wood top in my kitchen done 20 years ago, exactly like this. I would pay more attention to using the right glue (waterproof or water-resistant) and make sure those glue lines do not come loose. Put biscuits or whatever closer together.,(yes, I know, they don’t provide any strength, but I will disagree, and say that they do hold any further openings of any cracks from spreading or developing. Actually I think gluing like this is perfectly fine for any application as long as the wood being glued is not too wide. I like quarter sawn for these types of jobs and not wide. I actually just made one of these tops out of quarter sawn white oak just this week in the exact same way.
Your outside router design blended the seams in beautifully in my opinion. If using around any high heat or dishwasher, take extra precaution and protect the bottoms in any way you can. I am not sure how much heat and steam those glue lines can take edgewise, but have never seen a problem flatwise.
By the way, I have used Waterlox before and do not find it very effective for protecting wood surfaces. Unless I got some bad Waterlox, which I cannot count out, the finish does not hold up well to many things that can spill on these surfaces, and it definitely will sheen at different levels, and you have no control over this. I will never use it again, especially after all the positive remarks I heard about it. It bubbles like crazy on application, darkens wood too much, and sheen is way too high for me, and above all, not a durable finish for floors or countertops unless you were not concerned with this and were more concerned about food safety, which it is. Like I said, I could have gotten some that was old, put back into newer cans, sealed and then resold and new. This is always possible when buying this stuff or any other kind of finish that has an age limit.
Anyways, great job on a proven method for at least 20 years now in constant water areas and high steam.
Greg,
Thanks for the input. I choose Waterlox because it can be easily repaired on-site without removing the piece, which is especially important on countertops. I have not encountered the problems you have with bubbling or darkening the wood too much, though I have used it only on walnut and cherry, both of which benefit from a darker finish. Also, I have had no customer complaints on durability, I don’t check on them often, but I have enough of them out there that I expect I would have heard something by now. I use a cloth to wipe on at least five coats before I install the tops, using more on walnut than cherry, since the walnut is more porous. I do notice different levels of sheen as I am building towards five coats, but once everything is completely sealed the sheen seems to even out. It is a slow build process, but (knock on wood) I have had good results to this point.
Thanks for posting this information. Can you tell me the process you go through when finishing kiln dried walnut vs kiln dried & steamed walnut. I’m looking to build some walnut cabinetry, but I’m not sure what would give me a rich dark walnut color. I have read online that dyeing, sealing, staining, and then poly, but this process isn’t very specific. I was just looking for your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.
Steamed and unsteamed walnut work and stain the same, only the steamed walnut starts out lighter in color. To keep things simple I use Minwax stain, which is widely available. I mix 50/50 dark walnut and special walnut stain on steamed walnut and do very little on unsteamed walnut. You can get by with just a clear finish or you can use an oil first to make the color darker.
I happened across this and decided to give it a read.
Hope all is well Scott.
Take care.
Hello,
I have a question about some large wood cookies I have that someone wants me to make a sign out of. I would like to know if I could fill the large split with resin and soak it in pentacryl would the cookie still continue to split?
The pentacryl is to help stop the cracking if the wood is wet. The resin only works if the wood is very dry. If you use the resin and the wood is wet, the piece will crack and your resin work will be for not. If the wood is dry enough, the Pentacryl won’t help at all. You really need to know how wet the wood is to come up with a plan of attack.
Great post. I’d like to add that I had a sawyer I hired since I don’t mill, but had some nice logs. He flatsaw everything and I ended up with wide junk. He was the worst sawyer I ever worked with. I wish I had told him nothing over six inches, but he still would have flatsawn the job. When you cut the dimensions you suggest; you can rift/quarter just about all of it, resulting in much higher yields than twisted up wide boards that just won’t finish.
My parents North County home was built in 1951. It has random width oak floors and I always thought that it was natural. When I saw other homes with single width flooring I thought that they look strange; I still do. I wouldn’t want flooring any way but random width.
I remember that floor. I helped put it in. We also had a great day with the Woodmizer and Lucas sawmill. Breakfast was pretty good as well.
Hi, My name is Valerie and I have just acquired a barn full of aged “wormwood” panels. I am trying to figure out the best projects to make with it. Its beautiful and I am just picturing it with some stain and a little sanding. Any ideas and should I treat it with bleach first?
You can use the wood for any project, just that it now has more character. How much sanding or staining is up to you. I assume that you are asking about bleach for killing bugs in the wood. Often times the bugs/worms just live a life cycle in the wood and move on, so there is a good chance that no live insects are present. They are much more of a problem with wet wood, like old logs, than they are with dry lumber. With that said, sometimes there are bugs in the lumber and you would probably feel better if they were dead. You can kill them with a treatment of insecticide if you see indications of live ones in the wood, which is fresh holes with small piles of sawdust.
Thank you so much for your reply. I’ll send you a couple of pics if I ever get done with my projects in this millennium! Have a great week.
Hi, Scott. Thank you for the education. I’ve enjoyed reading this post, and must say that if your woodworking abilities are as strong as your writing, you’re in good shape (which is more than I can say for my two, gigantic slabs of Karri wood.
The slabs in question are roughly five meters in length x 3 meters wide, and about 10 cm thick. They were stored in Western Australia, at the timber company, but not as thoughtfully as you have prescribed. Unfortunately, they’ve cupped pretty severely, leaving “waves” which span the width of each slab about 70 cm apart.
The good news is that at least one of these slabs is not going to become a tabletop, but rather an enormous piece of wall art, so the cupping in its case causes only a visual disturbance – nonetheless, I want to get rid of it. My question is, will the reverse drying method you’ve described above work for these slabs? Or is it time to pullout the electric handplaner?
Thank you for your time.
Best,
– Tim
First of all, I want to see some photos of the wood you are talking about so I can get a feel for the issue, plus I just want to see a piece of wood that big. Second, I think that yo may be able to coax the wood a bit, but it is a taller issue with rough wood. The same principles apply, but there will be some planing, no matter how you approach it. Send over some photos.
For easy figuring by customers I charge 20 cents per inch of diam, times the length of log in feet.
bft in logs is an exponential equation centered on the diameter of the small end of the log. People in the wood business ought to learn to think algebraically.
Yes, it is based on the volume of a long, slender cone along with real world numbers that can be economically produced from various sized logs. The math is almost thrown out on the small diameter logs because of the low volume of lumber produced.
Fantastic commentary on Glue. I did not know the best to use and that there were so many variables. thanks!
I have about 5 stumps maybe 2 feet in height dont know the diameter but about 18 inches by 15 inches i have alot of oittle cracks like in the pictures i want to cut them straight down the middle and made rustic cuting bords but will there be little cracks even inside the wood that is not exposed at the moment ?
The cracks always start at the outside, so the middle may not be cracked (yet). They will most likely crack like the ends. Hopefully, you will get lots of small cracks instead of one big one that completely breaks.
Scott, I just saw the live edge walnut conference table you made for stock brokers in Ladue. It is spectacular! It is the best conference table of its kind I think I have ever seen, and I particularly like the metal base, which matches the conference room chairs beautifully.
My mom received some cookie trivets that are about an inch thick and they split just like in your picture. I did a burning pen technique to create an art piece on one, but I’m now concerned. The crack runs almost to the middle. Will it continue spreading until the piece breaks, or should it stop on its own? I don’t want someone buying it and then it breaking. I didn’t want to put anything on it for fear of making it worse. Thanks for all the info- the post is great!
The crack will stop at the middle. If another one meets it at the middle it will break in two, but one big crack usually relieves the stress so the other cracks aren’t as bad. Keep it inside drying and keep an eye on the cracks. They will get worse as it dries. I wouldn’t try and sell it until it is dry and the cracks stop opening up.
This is just “Wunder-ful” ! Hahaha!
Really- it is so beautiful, love the heart!
I can tell that you really love wood!
This one is my favorite, but you have a lot of
awesome work shown in these photos!
I hope I haven’t found this too late to receive an answer.. I’m about to start my project of making new beams look old. I purchased the tints you used and wondered how long you wait after applying the 1st coat of the dark mission brown before applying the 2nd coat of honey Amber & med brown mixture. Does the first coat have to be totally dry….. Thank you
The stains will blend together more if they are wet and less the drier they get, but they will still blend some even after being totally dry. The main difference will be if a distinct line between the two colors is desirable or not. In this case a distinct line is fine because it represents the sapwood line, so letting it totally dry between color changes is a fine place to start and the only way to achieve a distinct line. If you don’t like the hard line when you are applying the second lighter color, you can always go back in and add a touch of darker color to the original dark-stained areas and it will blend into the lighter color. These stains are very forgiving and easy to blend.
I just picked up a maple log roughly 8′ x 2′ diameter that had been stored inside for 6-7 years. It is very split, most of the burls were cut off in the beginning. I was thinking of forming the top a little for a seat and tables( leave it whole kinda of has that form already) I would leave it outside put it on a stand of sorts to keep it off the ground. I want to know how to seal it large holes and all! Live on the sunny Olympic Peninsula of Wash. St where it only rains 3/4 of the year. Would like to preserve it best I can for the years to come. Can send you a picture of it if that helps. Thank You!
My favorite outdoor sealer is Sikkens Proluxe Cetol Door and Window. It’s your best chance for complete outdoor protection. You will still have to maintain it every other year, but it is the longest lasting outdoor finish I know of.
Thank you for a great read! I have two 6″ thick, 36-40″ diameter cookies from an ash tree that was cut down today. I would like to build a table from one of them. I was thinking of putting a thin saw cut from the edge to the center of one to have a controlled crack that I can fill in later. On the other I am debating whether or not to let it soak in PEG or just take my chances with a crack. Is PEG going to significantly increase my chances of having a solid cookie? Also, I don’t know anything about wood. Are my ash cookies likely to fare any better or significantly worse than the woods you have shown in your post?
Any soaking you do will help, but is still no guarantee. At 6″ thick you will need to soak for a long time, in the months, not days or weeks. I haven’t tried to dry ash cookies, so I have no first hand knowledge of how much they will split. I can tell you that ash splits very easily, so any stress will definitely lead to a crack. My guess is that you will have splits, no matter how you treat it.
Great post! Thank you! When applying glaze over the sealerr, how long would you typically let it set, and im assuming you wipe off the excess which gives the deep parts the darker color. We had beams and posts made, but when cutting the posts to length we have to stain, glaze and lacquer the tops to match the side. They weren’t super thorough explaining how to do it and they are hard to get a hold of. Thank you!
The glaze only needs to be dry enough that it won’t be messed up by the application of the topcoat. Because you could be using any number of products, I can’t give you a better answer than that. I use a oil based stain (Minwax) and spray it almost immediately with lacquer. If you are using a brush for your topcoat, the application could affect the stain, so you will need to wait for the glaze to dry completely.
I’m new to woodworking. I’ve been using 1/4″ thick flatsawn cherry and walnut to make trivets and coasters. I just had a large beautiful piece of walnut cup in my garage. This post was very helpful. Thanks! My question is, once it’s cut into 4″ circles and even up to 8″ diameter circles, will it still cup then? Or is it stable once I’ve cut it that small? I then seal it with a benwood matte sealer hoping that adds to the stability too? Would love your thoughts! Thank you much!
Wood cups no matter what size it is. The amount of cup is just more visible or obvious in wider pieces. Cutting it smaller will not stop it from cupping, but it will bother you less. The wood cups because it is wetter on one side than the other. If you do anything that makes one side wetter or drier than the other, the wood will cup. Sealing the wood only slows down the moisture loss or gain in the wood, thereby slowing the rate of cupping, but it can still cup.To keep the wood flat, do your best to allow both sides of the wood to breathe. Store your wood cutting boards standing up, either in a drying rack or a cabinet, leaning against the wall. Adding feet to the bottom of the boards also helps to keep them off of the countertop, allowing the bottom of the board to breathe as well. Avoid putting a wet board without feet flat on a countertop. It will dry on the top and stay wet on the bottom, and it will cup for sure.
Thanks for the information. Next trip to the city will include a visit.
This is a great help to those of us amateurs who love working wood. I have a redwood round cut from a stump about 5′ in diameter and about 10″ thick. I was hoping to pond float it for a year or so to prevent the drying damage. I have heard that the pond float will eventually ‘dry’ the wood, even though the saturation from the pond will keep it soaked. Have you ever seen this? Do you think that I would be stuck with the same problem after a year or so with drying damage, or would the water coming from the wood after the year long bath be a different makeup than the normal water content from the live cells? Thank you for your advice!
I have never heard of that approach and my gut tells me that it won’t help much in a short amount of time. I suppose that with a long period of floating that something may physically chance in the wood, but it will take a while. I know that river recovered walnut dries quicker than newly cut walnut.
Having been with you for some very interesting parts of this journey, I so enjoyed reading about (and reliving) pivotal parts of it. More than once I’ve said, “you crazy, bro”, but I have been pleased to have been proven wrong time and time again.
You are a masterful artist and a great friend. I wish you nothing but blessings and success as you write the next chapters in this tremendous love affair with wood.
Cheers!
Great article. Thanks for putting the time into sharing the story.
Your Dad and I are so proud of you and what you have accomplished. So it all started with that truck huh? Keep up the great work!!
Great story Scott! Something I would have enjoyed doing except for the fire of course. It looks like you’ve got a nice business and a good mind for it.
And, you had time to write this!!
At first, I was going to pass your article by due to time restraints. I am glad I didn’t. Thanks for sharing your story. I can see a lot of myself in you. Best of luck in the future and continue to enjoy life.
I really enjoyed reading the history of Wunderwoods….I’m glad the Corley didn’t prematurely end the Wunderwoods story!
Thanks. Glad I bought a Doyle #524
Thank you for your information. My questions are regarding Mesquite. I plan on cutting some 4 inch high rounds for an event in January. How soon should I start cutting and treating the pieces?
If you cut them a couple weeks out from the event, you can get the surface to dry enough so that it won’t get moldy, but not so dry that it will have catastrophic cracks. It will still crack some, but you should be able to avoid the major ones.
What is the best way to trim the steel rods to their final length after you set them?
Thank you,
Scott
Any metal cutting saw will work. A hand-held hacksaw will do it, as well as a jigsaw or sawzall with a metal cutting blade.
great article Scott super informative…love the passion
nice thanks for posting this, i’ve been using a dremel which takes about 10 minutes and does a tolerable job just touching the tip of the each tooth
I’ve often wondered if running the saw backwards and holding a sharpening stone or something against it would help even a little bit to finish a log, havent yet tried it.
forgive my ignorance on this subject, but why are you sharpening the top of the blade? Isn’t it the bottom of the blade that does the cutting when it’s drawn through the wood? The gullet is the part that removes the sawdust so it’s the part right above that that does the cutting, isn’t it? That’s how my bandsaw works in my shop, same principle, right? Thanks for the clarification. Terry
The point of each tooth does the cutting, so the tip needs to be very sharp. Think of the tip of the tooth as a short knife edge or a skinny chisel or a not-so-wide plane iron. It cuts a small shaving that goes down into the gullet or scoop of the blade that is then pulled out of the cut. The only part that is sharp is the very tip of the teeth.
Thanks very much I think I’ll give it a try I hope it works
All good tips… but let’s think logically for a moment. As a hobbyist woodworker you have spent the better part of many weekends making something difficult. You own a few tools or an entire shop. A few thousand in tools and materials are at hand… let’s not talk about your time. A brush will apply it, butthen again you can defend yourself in court and do your own taxes. Spray your finishes. Even bad asses with a brush are about as slick as a six year old with a spray gun. Pay a pro to spray it… buy some basic spray equipment for your compressor. Brushes are evil and will make your hard work, the part people touch into a mess
Preach it Scott! I find good brushing effortless when done as you describe, and contrary to assertions to the contrary brushing is the single easiest way to create a finish that implores the hand to touch it and seduces the eye to finally see what beauty is.
I don’t mind finishing with a brush, but only when I am not in a hurry, which is mostly never, so I will keep pushing the spray gun. You sound like you have a very positive relationship with the brush that I think most people will never find, and if you aren’t in a hurry I say, “Brush On!”
Step One of applying a good finish starts before you even open the can of paint/poly/varnish.
You have to prep your wood for finish or it doesn’t matter how good your brushing or spraying skills are, your end result will look like crap.
That means sanding or hand planing all of the planer marks out of your wood, knocking the sharp arises off of all corners, and lightly sanding with 220 to blend in areas if you’ve used a combination of sandpaper, hand planing, and scrapers to prep your wood for finish.
You should feel comfortable rubbing bare fingers over all of your project. If you won’t because you’re afraid of getting a splinter or slicing your finger on a sharp edge (easily done if your corner is sharp enough, especially in the winter with dry workshop hands), then you have more work to do. And if you can see the scallops of the planer knife on your flat boards, then you definitely have more work to do.
Good prep work is very important for fine woodworking. I am going to defend my customer a bit on this one because I know that this was a gift for a family member, he was making several of them, they are going to live outside and he took that photo with some harsh lighting. He was kind enough to let me show off his drips, so I am going to leave it at that. He does great work, and I am sure if it was going to live inside forever that he would use fancier wood, spend more time sanding and make sure it looked great in the harshest of light (and probably not let me use the photos of the mistakes).
No worries, Scott.
Unless I’m framing, I tend to treat all “projects” as fine vs. rough or “outside” projects. I’d even sand a potting bench, I believe…
Hi Scott. Can you recommend a good value paint sprayer for a sometimes craftsman?
Barry Larson
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I have had good luck with Fuji hvlp systems. The guns are mostly the same, with the difference being the strength of the turbine and the noise level. The most expensive ones have more power and are quieter. If you are spraying thin finishes like lacquers you can get by with a weaker turbine, but it won’t atomize quite as good – three stage would be the weakest I would recommend. An entire system will still be about $600 on up. I can recommend nothing less expensive. Not that they don’t exist, but I haven’t used a good, cheap gun. Spend the money, it is worth it.
Great post, thanks. Two questions:
(1) I have a 5’X6″X10″ rough-hune beam (salvaged from a 1750’s home), which is very heavy. It looks very similar to the mantle in the first picture on this page. Are you confident that two steel stakes are sufficient? I think so, but just want to ask if you ever feel the need to use more.
(2) For mounting in masonry, would you locate the holes in the mortar joints or in the limestone?
After installation, I usually hang on each stake to make sure they will hold me up. I tip the scales at a dainty 200 lbs., so I feel confident that two stakes can hold up to 400 lbs. Most mantels aren’t anywhere near that heavy, and I don’t think yours is over the limit. There is no reason that you can’t add a third if it makes you feel better, but it will make installation a bit more tricky. You can drill in the mortar or rock, but the mortar is easier to drill.
Hi Scott. Great article! Very informative and has shed more light on the issues I have had with rounds. I actually found your article while researching Pentacryl. I am currently bidding on a job to make 20 stump stools for a classroom from recently felled red oak trees. The stools will range from 8″ to 16″ in height and diameters will range from about 14-20″. I will debark the logs and was hoping I could apply the Pentacryl all over each surface and deliver the stools in a couple of weeks. Can you provide some feedback on this approach, please? I’m not too considered about a few hairline cracks, but the last thing I want is for these stools to split and warp. This wood is very green and I’m concerned all of my effort may be a waste of time.
Pentacryl will definitely help, but it isn’t foolproof. Even if treated with Pentacryl the wood can still split. The longer you soak the wood the better the odds of it not splitting, so your short timeline doesn’t bode well for you. The bottom line is that it wants to split. Good Luck.
Selkirk Auctioneers & Appraisers (under new management – the Jeffers, who own Garth’s in Ohio) offer free appraisals on the last Tuesday of every month. They may be able to shed some light on it.
Great story and blog Scott! I agree, original our not is a fantastic buy for $20! While I do not consider myself a traditional woodwork, I always appreciate articles like this to help expand on my knowledge.
Hope to be visiting your cool ass shop again soon!
I’d love to have you. In the meantime, I’ll keep cutting.
I love the hell out of your blogposts. Thanks for doing this. This was another great one.
Chris Wood Ravenswood Tree and Landscape LLC Po box 191 Ipswich,MA 01938
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Thanks Chris. I love the hell out of writing them.
Why not contact the Nakashima Workshops for an opinion? They’re still in business (last I heard, still helmed by George’s daughter) and still make this rocker: http://www.nakashimawoodworker.com/furniture/22/128 I would be curious to hear whether they’re willing to weigh in on this.
Hoping to hear back from them soon.
Scott,
Nakashima Furniture is still in business in New Hope, PA. His daughter runs it. They still make that rocking chair, although it’s called a “New Chair Rocker” now.
http://www.nakashimawoodworker.com/furniture/22/128
They can be reached at: info@nakashimawoodworker.com
I’m sure they can probably shed some light on the subject.
Also, I’m totally jealous. What an amazing find.
Thanks Ethan. John has contacted them. I haven’t heard an update yet. When I do, I will post the results. By the way his daughter (Mira) has the same name as my daughter. That was not planned on my part.
That would be the toughest $20 scam to execute if it is fake. The photo of the real one had a laminated seat but better matching of the color. Either way, a great find.
I don’t think the guy that sold it for $20 was trying to fool anyone, just don’t know if there was any deception earlier in its life.
I ran across your post when trying to search for a solution to a slightly different problem. We had several large stands of big-leaf maples removed to stop them from dropping any more large branches on/around the house, and have been left with a few large rounds. (Most of the rounds were hauled away by an acquaintance for firewood.) I had the idea of keeping one of the large pieces (~3 feet across, maybe 1 foot thick) and using it (on edge) as an address marker near the road. I was trying to figure out what to do (or have done) to it to keep it from disintegrating outside. I hadn’t thought of splitting as a potential issue, though.
I have several choices of large rounds remaining, including one that already has a hole in the center (maybe 4″ x 4″). Any suggestions for me, or is this a terrible idea I should abandon entirely?
It is not the worst idea you have ever had. First off, the piece with a hole in the center has the most potential to not split. With that said, it is possible for a totally solid piece of maple to develop lots of small cracks and not develop one large crack. I would cut more than one slice, let them dry for a few months and see what happens. If they stay together, go ahead and use them. If you keep the wood off of the ground and standing up it will last pretty long since the water won’t pool anywhere. You can seal the wood if you want, but I think it will last a pretty long time unsealed, as long as it can dry out between rain events.
I live in Oregon and made an address marker with a round of cedar. It has been almost 10 years now. It did develop a very slow crack but not bad enough to destroy it. I just removed a maple tree and will dry 2 rounds – one for an eventual replacement address marker when the cedar marker bites the dust, and one for another spot in the garden. I imagine maple will last longer too.
I realize this was written five years ago, but Google brought me here when I entered ‘Is a pocket joint cheating?’ I’m new to woodworking, and after hearing how easy they are to use, I bought a Kreg jig. I haven’t built much, but I feel like using it is an easy way out. People online argue back and forth about them all the time. I’ve since bought a dowel jig and a biscuit jointer. The dowels are tricky to line up perfectly, and the biscuits aren’t good for heavier joint needs. I feel like I should practice more traditional joinery, but the Kreg gives me quick results (just doubt and near guilt when using it).
This was written a while back, but I still feel the same way. I was having this same discussion last week with a guy that was helping me. If it works and gives good results, I say don’t fight it. I am a very logical fellow and if the Kreg jig wasn’t doing a good job in the instances that we use it, I wouldn’t continue.
Excellent post,,,thank you!
Excellent article, and very informative replies to all the questions. Thanks!!
Hey Scott, thank you for your post. I am trying to find an appropriate adze. There are so many different kinds. What did you look for? Have any tips on what to search for specifically on ebay? Thanks for your time.
I just looked for an authentically old tool. Beyond that I looked for a long handle. I bought one a long time ago from Woodcraft with a short handle and it was harder to swing with control.
Would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to putting a 3/4 backer, glued and/or screwed between the thicker edges? A quality ply, or even mdf for something more stable? Is is it a no no to put a solid wood over a ply or composite due to movement?
I do put plywood on the underside between the thicker edges. The plywood serves as a good base, but it can’t be securely fastened since the plywood and solid wood move differently. I firmly attach the plywood to the cabinets and loosely attach the solid wood countertop with oversized holes to the plywood.
Damn Scott. You are a Wunderkind. I’ve been looking at web posts on and off all afternoon and this is the most helpful thing I’ve found. Leave it to a Missouran. I grew up in Bourbon, MO 60 miles west of ya, and am cautiously approaching antiquing my timber framed living room in CA. I have rough sawn doug fir 8 x 14 timber framed great room that someone had previously applied a very uniform dark red stain. I’ve chemically stripped them, and still have a nice orange tone. I’m now wire brushing with a grinder, and toying with the “Hewning” adze technique, although am afraid I won’t be able to get to it all the spots as they are in the air and I don’t want to hack at the ceiling. Are you aware of anything else I can do to age them, i.e. chemical acid? etc? I eventually want a nice medium brown tone like you show here. Appreciate any advice. Cheers, Dean Wigger
Thanks for the kind words Dean. Well, I certainly don’t recommend trying to do a hand-hewn look above your head. It sounds nearly impossible. I am doing a lot of work these days with a hand planed surface. To make it easier on yourself you could use a 4″ power planer to hit the entire beam quickly. The planer will leave lines on the surface, which you can leave as is, sand lightly, or sand smooth. The surface of the beam will be straight, but not flat. Set the planer deep to make more noticeable lines. To make it look authentic you might run over the surface with a regular hand plane to get plenty of stops and starts, which will be accented with stain.
Great read and great info …thx
Very nice!! Just finishing up a maple island top. Used your idea turned out great.
Thanks, Josh
League City, TX.
This is the best article I’ve found yet concerning these problems! I got a large round of pine that’s about 30″ diameter and 3″ thick and being a completely amateur I left it to dry and split. I want to salvage it for a tabletop still, perhaps by placing another wood into the crack or doing the thing mentioned above of cutting it into pie slices and reassembling them. The split is already a couple inches apart and has started to separate the rings towards the middle (the pith is off-center). Do you have any recommendations for how to repair the round or can you direct me to any online tutorials? It may be a lost cause, but I wanted to give it one last shot.
All of the fixes you mentioned are viable options, but will still be obvious as repairs. I am afraid that I don’t know of any tutorials. This is going to be a trial and error type of operation for you at this point. Sorry that I can’t be of more help.
Tracy, you could always use epoxy on it just google epoxy table tops to see what im talking about. its not easy work but i do that for all my wood cookie cuts. i think the cracks in the wood add art that cant be done by my own hands. i also soak my cuts i dont want cracks in polyurethane and i mean like in a bath tub soak. for two weeks on the really big cuts. it works for me but i only do hard woods too so im not sure how it would be on a soft wood like pine but your could always try.
Scott, this is a great article, however, what would you recommend if I am aiming to replace a limestone ledge already on my stone surround? There are also two protruding stones forming a “corbel” on each side under the ledge. Would a mason be able to remove those and then mount the reclaimed beam. I want badly to replace this and put a darker wood beam up to warm up the hearth. Thanks so much, Lori
If the piece of wood you are putting up will cover the corbels your mason could grind them off flush before you mount the mantel.
I have some soft maple(not sure which kind. Bought it as soft maple.) I was going to make a dinning room table with it. Have you ever tried hand scraping it like they do flooring? Does it scrape well? As far as staining goes I was thinking about trying the steel wool in vinegar trick then scrape it then a light stain so the black from the steel wool shows through. Have you tried the steel wool on maple? If so how does it work?
Lately I have been using a hand plane, either powered or non-powered, to make the hand-finished look. After planing, I sand out most of the hard lines, but leave a slightly wavy surface. The 4″ power planer makes fast work of this. I haven’t tried the steel wool vinegar on maple, but I assume that it won’t work as well as oak because it doesn’t have as much tanning in the wood, but it won’t hurt to try.
I’ll give it a try with a hand scraper and post a pic when it’s done.
So what’s the verdict? You’ve not heard back yet? Sure seems legit…
He heard back, and it is an original. They even have the paperwork from the original order. Wow!
Hello all…. great blog! I just had a large maple cut down and I was talking to the tree surgeon and he said he has a friend who soaks in Pentacryl then buries it for 6 months…. he said it works well…can’t hurt to try right?
I know what the Pentacryl does. Don’t know what the burying does. I imagine the Pentacryl is doing all the work in that case to stop the splitting, while the burying probably encourages spalting.
What is a good spray gun for spraying WB poly (General Finishes) over epoxy resign on table tops? I have a gun from Harbor Freight (really cheap) but get a poor pattern and it leaks at the lid (no gasket).
I am a fan of Fuji or Apollo, but as I mentioned in my post, only the really cheap guns are unusable. Any of the higher-end brand name guns work way better than the one that you were trying to use. Remember, buy a spray gun and don’t buy a cheap one.
how would one go about doing an inside corner using this technique? I am making an island and it has small ears on the corners that will need to be built up
The secret is in making the grain match as best as possible. In some areas, like the one you have described, you can’t get a perfect matched piece of wood. Do your best to get a piece of the same wood with grain going in the same direction for a match. Hopefully, it is only a small area and won’t stand out, even if the match isn’t perfect.
Just wanted to comment and thank you for your blog posts. I come across them frequently when I’m googling different woodworking questions.
Your welcome and glad to help.
thats what i figured but wanted to make sure i wasn’t missing something simple
Great blog scott. You ever talk about sanding swirls?
Thanks, Brian. I haven’t in a blog, but I am working on a finishing book and it will probably end up in there. Bad sanding is the #1 killer of otherwise good woodwork in the U.S.
Swirls are a result of your paper overloading or “damage” to the paper. Don’t be afraid to change paper constantly. Expensive I know but it works. Does it happen at all grits or just one size
I have had the same problem we use RUDD brand from Sherman-Williams. And the rep says we should sand down to 180 only before spraying. He says the reason is that any finer sanding does not give the CV enough tooth to adhere to the wood and previous coats of CV it’s working for us we used to sand down to 320. So it’s a radical change in procedure for us but it’s working.
I sand no more than 150 (180 is acceptable) on raw wood and 320 grit between coats. 180 grit will definitely leave scratches between finish coats.
Rather than using lacquer thinner , try using the flow addative which was designed for the conversion varnish & odd weather conditions. Many people are unaware of the 2 different flow addative’s 1 is for conversin varnish the other is for lacquers. There is NO flow additives for Cab Acrylics the Star addative is for the waterbased products. As for the polyuerthane & polyester line they vary depending on the weather. They aren’t as simplified as Ilva’s line is when it comes to those matters bet we all have our pro’s & con’s in life as I see it.
Rudd lacquer & converson varnishes are NOT from Sherwin-Williams. They are an Seattle Washington independent Family owned company of over 100 years. I sold the line in Florida & spoke with the head of the sales dept, recently as Florida client wanted purchase to a 55 gallon drum of laquer. They are working with setting up a new distribution point in central Florida. It was a great selling product line, very high quality especially well suited to the extreme humidity and heat. Pricing levels were excellent as well. Lab support, customer support & service, were tremendous, can’t say enough wonderful things about them!
Is there also a conversion satin clear coat. That will give you that extra durable finish. Thanks Mike
Krystal and other conversion varnishes come in different sheens, including satin.
Well my partner says also that you MUST use a 1.1 atomizer and spray in fine coats a “wet mist” not flooding it. Has something to do with “melting” of previous coat and how it reacts at the chemical level. We spray 4 very light coats with about 10-15 minutes between before we sand ” between coats”. We are going to try to use retarder and see that works. I’ll keep in touch with our results.
‘I am a proponent of applying multiple thin coats, as compared to fewer thick coats, which I believe are just inviting trouble.’
Bingo babe
Thank you. You have spared a new woodworking many hours, weeks of years of anxiety. I now know precisely what to do, thanks to the clarity and honestly of your commentary. A nice and unexpected gift today from a fellow St. Louisian, although I live in the Bay area now.
Scott – Back away slowly from the keypad and go get some sleep. I’m just curious but we’re you spraying a lot of lacquer today? Steve Palmer
No lacquer. Just bad drone pilots that keep running in to the ceiling.
April Fool!!!
Just in from the White House: “The Sanding Drone is fantastic! This is the kind of stuff that will make America GREAT again.”
Woodworker tries hand at parody; puts those that understand to tears.
(I sanded a desktop not less than an hour yesterday and it is nowhere near done.)
What sucks about sanding is you can’t really hand it off to low skilled employees either.
April fools!
Mine has the optional chain saw attachment. So handy! For so many tasks!
Nice
Excellent! I knew something like this would come along. Soon, woodworkers everywhere will be whizzing on the wood. Will Festool make one that costs twice as much?
This is funny, but I do agree with Steve Palmer that you might need better ventilation while shooting lacquer. Always enjoy you posts.
Got a great laugh…thanks! 🙂
Amen to the revolution. I have been milling Siberian elm for 10 years now. Everything from 36″ wide by 13′ long slabs to dimensional lumber. I haven’t found anything I don’t like about it so far. As for stability, I air dry my lumber and have had little to no issues with warping. I am in central Illinois and these trees are everywhere. I have several giants in my yard alone.
I have Large trees in the 48″ to 96″ range. Standing dead and on the ground. Species inc. Incense Cedar, 4 kinds of Oak, White/Sugar Pine; Sycamore, Soft Maple, Walnut, Mtn Alder, and verious others under 48″. Would like to find a woodsman from back East to do some trading with. Just devorced and looking for a reason. Love this site and the good old boys on it. Thanks for all the valuable knowledge.
WOULD SASSAFRAS BE A GOOD CHOICE FOR MAKING COOKIES, HOW LONG TO DRY/SEAL. WILL BE USED IN MID JULY FOR TABLE CENTERPIECES
Sassafras is a good stable wood, but can crack like any others. Mill them just a couple weeks before they are needed to reduce cracking.
hmmm – sanding today, carving tomorrow, milling next week. I need to invest in drones last week!
I Have a beautiful slab of mesquite wood that has a large void that runs to the edge of the bark. I would love to turn this into a bar top using a clear epoxy. My question is there anything i can use to keep the epoxy from pouring out like some kind of putty and then be able to remove it from the bark ?
We usually form epoxy dams with wide packing tape, sometimes backed up with a solid backer to keep it flat. To keep it from coming out the bark side, you may need to flip the wood on edge to make the bark the top side for filling.
So I have a question regarding cutting and then using a cookie from a stump to make a wall hanging. We saved some tree rounds (large logs) from a tree that fell into our yard during Hurricane Matthew. We’d like to cut a round from it, have a talented friend paint and letter “I survived Hurricane Matthew” for a decoration and hang it up. If we cut it at an angle, you are saying we’ll have a better change of it not splitting? The first cookie we tried split pretty much right away so we stopped! The wood has been sitting in our garage for 6 months waiting as we just didn’t know what to do at this point! Thanks for any suggestions.
So, splitting should be expected. Slicing at an angle will help a lot, but the angle needs to be pretty steep, like 45 degrees. Since your piece has already had some drying time, this may not make a difference. I would try both a cut straight across the log and one at an angle and see what happens.
I have a very large red oak tree that has to be removed. (15 1/2 feet circumference) that I wanted to cookie saw a table top from. Reading your article, how large of a center hole would you suggest I cut, followed by all other treatments?
I can tell you that a hole in the center will help, but I am not sure what the minimum size is that will do the trick. I think to be safe that the log needs to be more hollow than just having a hole. Pentacryl is the only other additional treatment that will give you a fighting change. Note that it is expensive and does take awhile, but it can be effective.
At some point, I’m going to break down and pick up something like the new DeWalt 15″ planer. I can joint one side and then use the planer off of that registry.
Mostly I’m thinking this because of all the rough lumber I have now and I really don’t want to haul it all to the guild shop to process (if I can even find the time to get there) and would rather not joint and thickness all of that lumber by hand…
Good article about spray gun. But, what are you spraying? Like most blogs you say lacquer, but I have gone to Sherwin Williams, Lowes, Home Depot, True Value, and Ace but when I ask for lacquer, they look at me like I came from Mars. Next thing I know, I am in the Minwax looking at brush on products. Is there a reason that woodworking blogs are vague about lacquer?
The only reason that I didn’t discuss a specific lacquer or lacquer type of product is that there are so many to choose from. I use the term to cover any products that are thinned with lacquer thinner and dry quickly. These products come in the form of a simple nitrocellulose lacquer, to modified lacquers with additives to improve performance and durability, to conversion varnishes, which are two-part finishes for maximum durability. After reading your comment, it is obvious that I could do an entire post about lacquers, and I think I should.
As far as where to get these products, most hardware stores will have few choices because they focus more on consumer friendly products that are thinned with mineral spirits and more commonly with water. I know that Lowe’s carries Deft products and that Minwax does sell a fast drying sanding sealer which is lacquer based. Paint stores like Sherwin-Williams seem to offer these products at larger central locations and not at every store. I get my products from a local distributor, which carries all supplies for cabinet manufacturers, including finish supplies. They carry M.L. Campbell products, but you can also look for products from Gemini and Mohawk, which are commonly used in this area. Beyond these, there are many more companies making similar products that probably work fine, but I have just not used them. Once you start looking and you find the right local person to ask, you will find a mind-numbing array of choices.
Hi. Hope I am not too late to join in on this conversation. I just remodeled my kitchen and have a laminated beam to box in. I just purchased 1x pine boards to dent with chain/bolts, make wormholes by gouging with screws, create faux cracks using an awl, and also use a hand planer in place of an adze. I was going to then use minwax pre-stain sealer to avoid blotchiness from pine wood, then use english chestnut stain, then put zinnser de-waxed sealcoat shellac over knots to prevent bleeding, and then finish off with poly or varnish. Does this sound ok?? am I missing anything? any suggestions?
Your approach will work fine. The sealer to prevent the blotchiness will help, but it will probably still have some blotches. Also, it will keep your stain from getting very dark, which may be problematic if you are trying to get a darker color. I use the dye stains because they are less blotchy and I can still get a dark color. You can skip the sealcoat shellac because you won’t need to worry about bleeding pine knots, which is really just a concern with a colored finish (paint).
I’ve read that although some of the oil-based pre-stain sealers say to apply stain within 2 hours, letting it dry overnight can sometimes limit more of the penetration, thus providing a less blotchy and grainy look in pine. I also read that using the vinegar/steel wool mix can also limit the graininess/blotchy look on pine. Any thoughts on that? I agree with skipping the shellac over the knots. I re-read your initial post and somehow I missed the part about the sanding sealer. I was thinking of using some type of a glaze to accentuate the indentations I make in the wood. So now I am thinking of 1) pre-stain sealer (letting dry overnight), 2) applying coat of oil English Chestnut stain, 3) applying sanding sealer, 4) wiping a gel stain on and then off, like a glaze, to accentuate grooves, etc, and 5) putting 1-2 coats of satin poly on it. Sound better?
That sound like a great approach. Since the pre-stain sealer will limit the amount of stain the wood will accept you will probably need the glaze coat to darken up everything. Do samples first for sure to make sure you can achieve the look. I know nothing about the vinegar/steel wool approach to limit blotching.
Well I finished the beam, and I want to thank you for your input, and the online video. Since I didn’t have an adze, I used a small hand planer. I cut my boards using 45degree miters on edges and wood glue. I then randomly planed the edges to roughen them up. Doing this step really makes the boards look like one solid beam. I also inserted 1-1/4″ dowels to make it look like pegs and mortise & tenon joints. Everyone thinks it looks great, and for my first time doing it, I think it came out good. I ended up skipping the sanding sealer/glaze step that I previously mentioned, as I didn’t want to end up going too dark if the glaze got absorbed. Instead I took Provincial colored stain and used a small artist paintbrush to fill in every single indentation, wormhole, etc, and wiped off any excess. That took a couple hours to do, but you only do it once, and it really accented the work I put into the boards. I’d love to send you a pic or two for feedback.
http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2017/06/woodswimmer-stop-motion-film/
Scott check this cool video!
Question: the lacquer- did u use semi-gloss or satin?
I have an old antique pine chest that I’m assuming at one point was a hope chest, and then apparently a tack chest. At any rate I came across this blog post and decided I’m going to refinish it using this tutorial. I wish I could send you a picture of it and get your opinion on any potential changes to your above process. It’s very dry beat up wood.
I normally use a satin sheen. If not satin, then these days its even more dull.
I love this feed, and your skills! Thank You. Please tell me how you joined boards when necessary. One beam that I’m having made is 38′ long. I’m sure it will have at least 1 joint. If the joint doesn’t look good, I’ll probably cover it with a strap, but I’d like to know your advice here. Thank You.
First off, I spend a while making sure that the wood looks good at the seam, meaning there are no knots cut in half and that the grain matches as closely as possible. On hollow beams, it is usually a combination of biscuits, glue and Kreg screws. On solid beams it is usually metal plates, though I am a fan of decorative connections, like those found in Japanese construction, with locking dovetails. Lots of work, but very cool and structural.
hpoche – for my hollow beam, which is 18′ long, I have two support columns to deal with, so there has to be 2 breaks/seams on the bottom board. I decided to carry the break up the side pieces as well, so it looks like 3 sections of beam. What I plan to do is drill two 1-1/4″ holes vertically on each side of the seams, and insert 1-1/4″ dowels. I’ll make sure to sand smooth and such. The end grain of the dowels should soak the stain and come out darker, thus adding a little character to the beam. It should make it look a bit like a mortise and tenon joint or barn-beamish I think. My wife gave the thumbs up on a scrap test I did, so that’s good enough for me.
If this is still a legitimate website , I’d like to speak with you about a table that belongs to my family. How does one get in touch with the “nakashima” kids ?
Try http://www.nakashimawoodworker.com. Mira Nakashima is in charge now.
Scott,
Pin oak has much the same reputation here (near KC). I don’t see very many with ring shake, but your description of knots and odor is spot on. Since I custom mill, I do get to mill pin oak several times per year, even after advising clients of the potentials.
It can display some stunning grain and they are usually enthused with the boards they get. I do recommend adding a quarter inch of thickness due to the erratic shrinkage around knots when it dries.
There were several species planted around here after the demise of the American elms in the 50s. Pin oak, silver maple, white ash, and Siberian elms… most of those are how reaching their maturity and coming down. The pin oaks and elms are often at a size too large for my bandsaw mill unless broken down with a chainsaw.
I have warned my tree guys that I don’t buy pin oak but I usually end up with a couple of them around here anyway. No one has ever called me looking for pin oak lumber.
Thank you for your interesting article on Pin Oak. I have always wondered about it’s absence from any commercial use, and now I know. So at least it still makes good fire wood, right?
Great firewood!
I use a grace airless spray gun with a 50′ hose never clean it love it
Wow Scott, you really hate Pin Oaks.
Hi Scott,
I love the chotoyance of your elm piece; I want the same effect. I just recieved a new 4″ thick, 18″ to 24″ wide slab of elm for my breakfast bar. I will still install the green wood but how long before I can finish it like yours? How do I tell if its dry enough?
Thank you, Kate
Rule of thumb is an inch of thickness per year drying time. Since your piece will be inside that time will dramatically decrease. I would let it sit a year before I finished it. You can do it as soon as six months, but you will probably want to refinish it after it dries more thoroughly and stops moving.
I just saw this article. I have used lye (100% sodium hydroxide I bought at Lowes), and it works fabulously on cherry. I built home bar and back bar out of cherry, and I used lye to get the dark rich cherry color. It’s beautiful!
I let the lye dry thoroughly, sand it with 320 grit lightly to knock down any raised fibers, then apply 2 coats of white shellac, then 2-3 coats of Deft Brushing Lacquer – sanding lightly between each coat. I finish it with Minwax Finishing Wax using 0000 steel wool, which gives a nice semi-gloss luster that looks 100 years old. The finishing wax leaves a very hard finished after buffing.
Lye is amazing stuff on cherry, because it merely reacts with the natural chemicals in the wood, unlike stain that has pigment in it. Lye leaves no blotching at all!
I am currently building a fold-down tablesaw outfeed table/assembly table from some non-furniture-grade cherry that has some sapwood in it that I had left over from the bar, plus a partial sheet of nice cherry ¾” plywood left over. I just applied the lye to it, and from the bar experience, I know it will come out looking great after finishing!
Ken
Hi. When we had to take down a pin oak two or three years ago, I had the tree guys cut several cookies for me. They just sat in the shed. This summer I tackled the first piece, for a table top for outside. It’s roughly 2 ft x 18 inches.
There was a nice crack in it (adds character), so that didn’t bother me. I finished it with a good five coats of with spar urethane and was careful to get it down in any small cracks from the edges as well as down the big one. It went through a big rain fine, then another one, and there is a new large crack and an area about 6″ from the edge where it looks like someone chipped through the 2″ thickness. First, I’m guessing that even spar urethane wasn’t going to protect an end cut – ?? Second, how to do I tackle repairs now? I can live with the cracking, but I’m not sure how to go about the repair. More spar urethane? Fill the voids? (epoxy?) And cover it to protect it from the rain.
With your wood being outside and subjected to constant changes in temperatures and humidity, cracking will be a constant battle. Filling with urethane or epoxy is a fine way to go, but the piece will constantly have at least some small cracks. Keeping it under cover will help immensely. The rain and sun wreak havoc on wood.
Without doubt there is a Siberian elm in our front yard which spread literally hundreds of annoying weed seeds everywhere around the property I have been caretaking past year. The bark is dark and coarse. In the back yard, on the other hand is an elm sapling, uniform in shape with very light colored, smooth bark. Initially, I suspected the Siberian in the front yard to be its parent, but the light color throws me off, making me think it is the Chinese variety. I’ve found nothing to describe the Siberian elm sapling and wondering if you can help.
That’s the point of my post. There aren’t many Chinese elms and since you have a Siberian in the front, the other is most likely a Siberian as well. It is difficult to identify young trees by the bark because young bark is so much different than mature bark. Look at the new growth on your Siberian and see if it looks like the other to be sure. Find diameters of the same size to compare.
I have a piece of oak that has a crack like your pictures show of the cookies !! It had dried inside for over a year some people say cut it in half and Join it back together other said just fill the crack with epoxy. Would one of those options work ..
Both options will work. Cutting the piece in half and gluing back together (after the wood is dry) will be the most difficult to make look natural since the grain won’t line up across the entire piece. I normally use epoxy to fill large voids and it will work in this case as well. It will look like you filled it, but there isn’t a way around it once the piece is dried and cracked.
Hello I have a question about pentacryl how long it will take for it to work on a cookie that is 8×12 and 2″‘ thick? And how do I know us dry?
It will take weeks of soaking for good penetration with the final determining factor being the species of wood, as some are more open and willing to accept pentacryl. The wood is dry when it stops losing weight. The dryness can also be determined by using a moisture meter.
It’s a Wunder, I thought for sure u were going to end it w/” in the end of my sizing up, I am left w/an abundant amount of “”scraps & spacers””, & Peggy will you please come out here & take some home”! Btw have people mentioned that sent them to your shop? And do you need any help? I’m here, when u do. I will drop my saw, shake the saw dust out of my hair & be on my way. Sincerely, Peggy
Hopefully, I don’t end up with a lot of scraps if I do it right. I’ll be sure and call you when I do it wrong.
Great tips, Scott. I once read about a construction crew who always designated a “Hero Tape” that was left on the chop saw throughout the build instead of each carpenter using his own. If it was off a bit, all cuts would still be consistent.
I love to work with quartersawn pin oak had good results ,why not?
I’m linking to this on my blog. For the factory owner, uniformity is the key to uniform success (or so I have read in the trade mags). But for us poor urban sawdust-makers, what we get from our supplies probably isn’t uniform, not only from one piece to the next but from one end of the board to the other.
https://apprenticetothecarpenter.wordpress.com/2017/05/28/woodworking-tips-and-tricks-microsurgery/
Why is it necessary to drill the corresponding holes in the mantel at 1″ diameter?
The bigger holes allow room for shim adjustment if something isn’t level or the holes aren’t drilled perfectly.
Excellent article, wunderful in fact. The quality of the information here is always world class. Thanks for sharing your secrets.
using a coating can be much easier to do before a log is cut into boards.
Ben, applying the end sealer on the logs will help. I just have a hard time deciding which logs are worth sealing and often they are already checked when I get them. I think the sealer works better overall if it is applied after milling so the coating can seal the ends and the sides close to the ends, similar to dipping the boards. If sealed before milling there is no sealer wrapping around the edges which I think leads to more checking.
I believe the stone on my fireplace is not real stone. My husband is afraid the weight will crumble the stone and I am not able to locate the studs behind the stone to use those as more support. Any suggestions? I am using a 2×4 brace and a mock beam made out of pine so the weight is considerably less than a solid piece of wood but I’m still nervous about how to hang it.
The good news is that there is some sort of structure holding up your fireplace and since you are putting up a mantel that can cover lots of test holes you have plenty of chances to find studs. They are usually 16″ on center, so you should be able to find one after drilling only about 16 holes. Drill the first one about 16″ from the edge and maybe you’ll get lucky.
as a amatuer tree cutter (firewood) i have a devil of a time identifying trees i found your post modt helpful and will now argue with my freinds that they too don’t have a chinese elm. thanks
Do you drill all the way thru the 2 x 4 to install the stakes?
Yes. Just make sure to not pop out on the other side if it will be visible.
Hi Scott, after reading this I think i have the courage to proceed 🙂
I have a 7ft x 9″ x 3 1/2″ mantel shelf (55 lbs) with two solid wood corbels 6 1/4″ deep (5 1/2 lbs each). It’s going on a concrete wall that is fronted with studs and plaster. I was thinking of using your technique but using lag or coach screws (cutting the heads off when in position). I’m using one in each corbel (1/2″ x 9 1/2″ screws)… and with the beam sitting on the corbels – two more screws joining beam to wall (1/2″ x 8″ screws).
Do you think I need to go through the studs? I thought as long as I get to the concrete blocks i’d be ok…?
Do you think I need to use epoxy in the wall if I’m screwing into it? I notice you don’t put any in the beam which would mean I wouldn’t be using any at all…?
Any help would be much appreciated.
The method I show is for a floating mantel. If you are using corbels, they will do most of your work. You will, of course, still need to mount the corbels. They can be mounted as you described and then just screw down through the mantel to attach it to the corbels. Just the studs will be more than strong enough to support the mantel since it isn’t too heavy.
Thanks Scott…. all worked out well. I attached the corbels using your method and laid the mantel onto of them attaching with a 5/8″ wood dowel in each. It all seems very solid and safe. Thanks very much for the help!
I just use loctite epoxy from Home Depot. It comes in two bottles, one resin, one hardener and is thick-bodied.
What kind of epoxy do you recommend? I am using the steel rods in a 2×4 stud through drywall.
Great advise. I know my red oak cookie slabs will split. The slabs are 37 inches in diameter and about 3-4 inches thick right now, before finishing. I like the slabs to be rustic. Will painting both sides with house paint “help” reduce the larger cracks or am I wasting my time? I am just trying to avoid catastrophic breakage of the complete cookie!
I think you are wasting time. It will slow down the drying a touch, but that just means it will be another day or two before it splits. Hopefully, the splits won’t be catastrophic and just add “character”.
Excellent and informative post.
Scott,
Nice explanation of the value, and difficulties with, residential logs. Transportation is a major consideration. I have had similar experiences, although I seldom get free logs. I buy from tree services and individuals – usually delivered here at my mill. Being offered a clean saw log is rare, and the prices I pay are correspondingly lower. I don’t think I was ever offered a veneer-quality log, but I think most tree services are selling those to someone else 🙂
I don’t produce a product, the logs I buy are usually for resale with my milling services included. Perhaps next year I’ll have my kiln going and will start buying/milling/drying and selling lumber. I, too, get the calls about those ‘valuable’ yard trees, your explanation explained the reality very well.
Great post Scott! As an SAF Certified Forester and an ISA Board Certified Master Arborist, I can verify everything you’ve posted. (btw…. you’re supposed to be impressed by those credentials!) I get “the question” from homeowners with a single tree, and landowners with hundreds or thousands of trees. “How much is it worth?” My response is the same as yours, “whatever someone’s willing to pay.” Not a smartass answer at all. It’s gospel. Thanks for sharing this insight and I will likely share your thoughts, and this article with folk if you’re OK with that. Might get you a few logs!! Mill on!!
I had a walnut in my yard that wore out its welcome. It had 2 trunks about 18″ and my heart sank when I saw how much sapwood was there. Anyway, I milled it and it awaits my attention.
Great article.
Great article (as usual) that every home/land owner should be made aware of.
Nice article Scott. I deal with this same issue frequently. Another interesting problem I get when dealing with homeowners are people who confuse circumference with diameter. Showing up to look at a 36″ diameter log that is only 11″-12″ can be frustrating. Any more I just ask people if they can put their arms all the way around the tree. Just seems easier.
My only problem with your article is the lack of an Oxford comma in the second sentence in the second paragraph. 😉
Thank you for your informative post. I was hoping you could help me. I have a 20″ wide piece of 170 year old barn wood that I want to make into a dresser top, but it is cupped rather badly. Any suggestions. It is about as dry as paper throughout.
Most of my tricks work on wood that was machined flat after sawmilling and drying and then cupped. Barn wood is usually installed wet, so the cupping is now “built-in” to the wood. On barn wood we often have to do some ripping, flattening and reassembling. I know you don’t want to do it to a 20″ wide board, but you will probably have to. Your other choice is to thoroughly soak the wood until it flattens out on its own, meaning it went back to its original state and then redry with clamps and cauls. We have had some success with this method, but still not totally flat and it takes awhile to do.
Great article and the first to make sense to me regarding what happened and why and isn’t saying to plane or cut. thanks! So I have an oak 1 by 6 that was cut to make a floor transition ramp of sorts so its thickness is not consistent as it is a wedge now. So I had it in my garage workshop for months laying flat on my workbench while I sanded, stained, and poly coated the top only. Now the thinnest section has cupped upward away from the table by 2 mm…which would mean it isn’t flush with the floor and forcing it down will likely crack it. It is winter here in Ohio so the sun thing is likely out. I tried the hair drier with no luck but it is 8 ft long so it difficult to heat throughout and consistently. Also the ‘dry side’ gets hot when I do this since it is so thin at the wedge part so I don’t know if it’s making the drier part even drier. Now I have it laid with the unfinished side up in the house. Do you think this will work since it’s likely been cupped for a while? Will it work due to the wedge and uneven thickness? If it does work and go flat, I will poly all sides evenly. Any other tips on prep or install so it doesn’t recup after install when one side has no airflow?
Assuming that your lumber was kiln dried when you started, the most likely scenario is that the unfinished side soaked up humidity from being outside and began to swell, causing the cup. If this is the case, simply bringing the piece inside to dry out the unfinished side will bring it back around to flat. After it is flat, finish the bottom with the same number of finish coats as the top to help keep things in place. By the way, it seems like you really paid attention and have a firm grasp of the situation.
We get a lot of box elder (soft maple) in NY. It is ok for making projects with. I make crates and other utility stuff with it. It has red streaks in it occasionally.
Great article. We have a huge oak tree in our yard that will come down in the next 10 years. I’ve often thought about what we could do with the wood. You’ve explained the economics well. I think I would be lucky to get some boards from it after having somebody take it away. Unless, of course, it’s a pin oak (another great article). A neighbor did the same with a huge oak in his yard. He found a guy with a mini mill to process it where the tree cutters brought it down.
Getting someone to cut it on site for you is a great idea.
You sold me some green white oak a few years ago for a screen/storm door that I made. It’s working great…through hot summers and cold winters.
I’ll be calling you for some black walnut in 2018 for a dinning room table I need to make. Hopefully you have some good rough cut boards on hand. You seem to be the only supplier in St. Louis who offers rough cut lumber (my preferred stock since I have a jointer, planer, and table saw and I enjoy the process of machining down rough boards).
Still cutting wood. Lots of walnut these days.
Beautiful top. What router bit did you use?
It is a large classical router bit from Rockler.
Nice article. I have a wood mantle slab that is 5′ long, 4″ thick, and 13-15″ in depth. It is very heavy, at least 70-80 lbs of white oak. We are mounting it on drywall. Will two studs at each end suffice for this? And any idea how thick studs are in a house built in late 90s? I’m trying to figure out the proper length needed for the steel rod. My guess is at least a foot.
Thanks!
One steel rod on each end is enough for that mantel. Studs are 3-1/2″ thick. Make the holes in the mantel as deep as possible without going through the front and trim the rods to the appropriate length after they are in the wall. Start with 18″ rods.
Thanks for the response! Couple more questions: I’m guessing that a threaded steel rod is OK?
My hardware store does not have a 11/16″ drill bit. I picked up a 5/8″ drill bit for drilling into the wood. Do you think this can still work?
I do not have a grinder saw, only a hack saw for trimming the steel rod. I am hoping it will not take too long to saw through it.
You want the holes in the wall and the holes in the wood a little bigger than the rod (and yes threaded rod will work).
This article is so helpful! We had a pine tree cut down last February and the logs I kept are still in my yard, as I was trying to figure out how to store them properly. Do you have any insight as far as logs from a pine? (not sure what type though). I want to use them in art work but I have no idea where to begin to figure this out.
The wood won’t be thoroughly rotten yet, but the sapwood will be getting soft and probably have some bugs in it. I would mill the logs or do your artwork as soon as possible, so the wood can start drying out and stop rotting.
HI I know that you posted this awhile ago but it looks like you’re still active. I would like to make faux beams that look like timbers. I love yours! Most of the ones I’ve seen just look like trim and not actual timbers. How did you make the seems at the corners hide well so you can’t tell they are separate pieces? I know they are finger jointed together. Did you buy them like this? Make them? Any suggestions?
The corners are assembled with a miter lock joint made on the router table. It makes a strong joint at a true 45 degree angle. The corners still need work after assembly, but they look like a solid beam.
Threaded rod will work if it is stiff enough. Put some pressure on it and see how much it bends. If you need to, go to a bigger size. Main point was not to use rebar, it is very flexible and the stakes I recommend are very stiff. A larger hole won’t hurt. You will just need to use more shims or epoxy in the hole. A hack saw will work fine. It isn’t as fast as a sawzall, but it will get the job done.
I think you would agree that the use of rebar depends on the weight of the mantel you are hanging. I’ve hung 60lb mantels on two 6 inch rebar rods with zero problem. Would probably take 300lbs or more to bend a 6 inch pc of 1/2″ rebar. You can use rebar,
You can use rebar, just make sure it is stiff enough for your installation. The flexibility of rebar becomes more noticeable on mantels that are deeper, in the 12′ range and especially more shelf like, at around 4″ thick. If the mantel doesn’t protrude much from the wall and has a decent height, it will be less bouncy.
Hello Wunderwoods – I have my mantle mounted on the steel rods. I have one issue – the mantle is not flush against the wall. I realize (after it was too late) that one of holes I drilled into the wall is not level, but rather it is pitched slightly downward. This makes the mantle pitch downward a bit. I am guessing that I can take a smaller wood drill bit in the 1” hole and use that against the top of the hole to make it level (parallel with the ground). I’m curious if you have any thoughts on this. I’d rather not drill new holes in the mantle, since the current holes are lined up with the steel rods. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Pete, I just use wraps of tape on the rod to level it out. In this case, just wrap tape on the low end of the rod until the top of the rod is the correct height. Basically you are putting a shim on top of the rod.
Thanks for the reply! If I may clarify, the rods in the studs are level. One of the holes I drilled into the mantle pitches slightly downward (it’s a 10.5 inch hole). I thought the solution was to somehow level out the I drilled in the mantle. Maybe I’m missing something?
If the hole is causing you some misalignment, ream the hole larger to straighten it out and shoot a liberal amount of liquid nails (or other adhesive) into it when you mount it. If it has caused a lot of play up and down or sideways, place a 2 x 4 under it to level it out until it dries.
There are multiple ways to level it out. As long as it ends up level, I would say it is acceptable. I am, however, not a fan of using adhesive to mount the wood to the stakes. The wood will stay up fine without adhesive and the adhesive will make it almost impossible to remove when the time comes.
The same rule should apply. You just need to raise the front relative to your steel rods.
This would make for an awesome YouTube video!
Does anyone have a normal price rate for various species of trees in West Tennesee? I would like to know what aromatic cedar in the log is priced if i cut it or they cut it and bring to me. I was told about 20 to 30 cents per board foot on the Doyle scale. Does this seem right?
I haven’t heard of any prices paid for cedar logs by the bd. ft., but I assume that it would be in that range. I have heard of paying by the weight or truckload, but I don’t think it added up to much. I don’t know of any operations around St. Louis that pay for cedar logs. Not that it doesn’t happen, just not in my circles. It can’t be too much because the logs tend to be small and the lumber isn’t super valuable. Just not a lot of room in there for a sawmill to make money. I get my logs for free and I still don’t cut much cedar because I can’t take them into much money.
Sir….I am in the process of making a pedestal table (hard maple, 4’ x 4’) and had a bad day in the shop trying to get my table top flat. I am close to having it flat now, but unfortunately it is too thin now…about an inch thick, but the look we were going for was about 1 3/4” thick. So I was doing research online and found you and this article. I absolutely love your idea and want to try it, but I have a concern: if all my glued up pieces run one way, then I glue up some thicker pieces to all four edges….two of those edges will be going against the grain of all the main pieces running in one direction. Gosh, that sounds confusing, but I hope you understand what I’m saying. So my concern is that as the maple expands or shrinks, won’t there be cracking? I read your other article about “Don’t screw (up) your wood top”…..and you talk about not screwing in a piece of wood tightly or it will eventually crack when the wood shrinks…..but isn’t gluing up the wood in this manner going to lead to the same problem? Any help or suggestions you might have are appreciated….I really like this idea.
Gluing up to make a thicker top is fine as long as all of the grain is going in the same direction. It is possible to make it thicker with a cross grain glue up, but it won’t look great, you will have to make special accommodations for it to allow the wood to move and it will get worse through time. I wouldn’t recommend it, for sure.
Understood. I appreciate the response.
What is a good brand and model of a conventional spray gun to spray mostly clear finnishes and lacquers.
I am a fan of Binks (conventional) because it is what I started with and Apollo (hvlp turbine) because it is one that I use now. I also use Graco (hvlp turbine) and Titan (hvlp turbine) now, but neither of them have a conventional gun I can recommend. I have also had great luck with Fuji’s turbine gun, but have never use their conventional gun. I would assume that either a new Binks, Apollo or Fuji gun would work great for you since I have always had great luck with those brands. The Binks SV100 would be a good choice.
I am about to tile the wall that my fireplace is on from floor to ceiling with stacked stone tiles that are 6″ x 24″ x 1″ thick (https://www.nfm.com/DetailsPage.aspx?productid=2299891 ). The wall is 1/2″ drywall on wooden studs. Is it safe to drill through that type of tile or will it cause it to split/crack? Also, the tiles vary in thickness quite a bit and will make it difficult for the mantle to sit flush against the wall. Will it still be pretty stable even if it does not sit flush? Thanks for the write-up!
I think you should be good. The stone should drill fine with a hammer drill and masonry bit. The mantle will be stable, even if it isn’t completely flush to the wall. This isn’t much different than any other natural stone application, so the most you may have to/want to do is to chisel back some of the stone to get the mantel closer to the wall. I bet you will find that it isn’t necessary and still looks great with a bit of a gap.
i have a 40″ w kanpher counter bar top that is starting to rainbow on me after i finished it with bar top resin only on the top and sides. what do i do ?
The top is moving because only one side was finished. The unsealed side is drying more than the sealed side now that you have brought it inside into a climate controlled and dry environment. The top will eventually level out after the entire thickness of the wood reaches the same moisture content. In the summer the cup may even reverse as the unsealed side gains moisture. As long as the bottom remains unsealed you will have wild swings in humidity and flatness. At some point when the wood looks flat, it would be a great idea to fully seal the bottom to help prevent future cupping. Also, make sure to loosely attach the top, so that it can move in width to prevent the wood from cracking.
I make a lot of my own lumber and have experienced quite a bit of end checking so I will have to give this a try. Thanks for the advice.
Hello there! I just purchased a 38″x108″ live edge piece of kiln dried white oak. The gentleman we bought it from said just to wet it down and place 4 sets of 2x4s on the top and bottom,and secure them with clamps and it should work itself out. I found you because I didn’t ask if it should be hot water or cold water and from the things I’ve learned, his suggestions seem really optimistic to me. Is there hope? If there is and it does flatten, I plan on using tung oil to protect it. Should I make sure to do both sides to prevent it from re-cupping? Thanks in advance.
We have used a similar method in our shop and had some improvement. The slab we tried it on dried with a terrible cup and only had the weight of the stack on it. We completely rewetted it, soaking it in wet blankets for a couple of weeks until it was completely flat. We then sandwiched it between oak 3×4″ on both sides and retried in the kiln. The wood still wanted to cup, but the overall result was flatter. This will take lots of time and effort on your part for white oak because water moves slowly through that species and any changes will take a long time to take place. If the piece is so cupped that it is unusable, then it really can’t hurt to give it a go and see if you can make any progress, just don’t plan on it being quick. If you do happen to get it flat enough to use, make sure to seal both side evenly to maintain flatness.
Hi, thank you for the very informative article. I have two questions for you. One of them Has to do with this article and the other well, I’m just hoping you’ll answer anyways or give me a link to another article of yours.
First, at what point does a piece of wood stop being a log and start being a cookie? It seems that this is the difference between cracks and splits.
Second, do you have a technique for cutting rounds at Angles so that you end up with approximately the same angle through a log over and over?
A log is just a long cookie and given enough time will crack all of the way through just like a cookie. The cracks won’t be catastrophic in a log because of the extra length of material to hold everything together, though a dried log can have some monster cracks.
As far as the angle question goes, I am not sure what you are asking. However, I can tell you that cutting cookies at angles (which produces oval shaped cookies) does help reduce cracking during drying. It is hard to describe, but when cut at an angle there is no longer one continuous circle of wood in the cookie, but multiple small pieces which are already disconnected from one another and less likely to pull until they are destroyed.
Lucky find. Kismet? Enjoy carrying on the tradition.
I would like to thank you for this. I just added beams to my shop mostly following these directions. I am so happy how it turned out. Can’t recommend it enough. Wish I could post pictures. Thanks again.
Thanks. Im glad it worked out for you.
Medical purposes, what are the medical remdy?
Sorry, I don’t know of medical purposes for sassafras.
Happy new daddy
I understand sticking with something that works. I recently got my first new car in seventeen years. It’s a green 2018 Subaru Outback. It replaces my green 2001 Subaru Outback… 🙂
Big Red is like a member of the family!!
I had a round top cup on me recently. I used a water-based poly with 6 coats on the top but only 3 on the bottom—I sprayed all top coats first and allowed to dry before coating the bottom. It was a thick film but glassy and beautiful. It cupped in the rainbow formation. I tried using cleats but the long grain cupped with the wood that makes up the top, unfortunately. I’m assuming this is because of uneven coats?
Also, to remedy the situation, I was thinking of belt sanding both sides down to the bare wood to get the moisture even again before re-coating evenly, one side at a time. Would you say this is the best option? I would hate to start over. It’s Ash, by the way.
If you wait long enough, it has a good chance of going back to flat or near flat, but not until it had entirely dried out, which will take awhile since it is fully coated. I would let it go for awhile and see what happens. Sanding the finish off of both sides will make the evening out happen faster, but then you will need to refinish. Once the piece has dried and leveled out, then I would coat the bottom to get the film as even as possible, but the movement will be much less dramatic after it has fully acclimated.
Caution, your artist side is showing!
I always enjoy reading your blog. Great photos all around, but the one below is definitely worth KUDOS!
Thank You!
April J Morris
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You gave that “new” C-60 a second lease on life, and you saved yourself a ton of money versus buying new. That’s a buy I’d be proud of. Great read!
I own 340 acres of wetland in north Louisiana and have several Cypresses that are several hundred years old that I’d like to sale to fix up the rest of the property the bases of some of these exceed 8ft and are really tall. Would you know any pricing on cypress per board foot? And since it’s a special wood should I hire a independent appraiser?
I don’t know much about cypress pricing. In Missouri, state foresters are available to help with wood sales. Not sure if it is the case in Louisiana, but that’s where I would start.
I am refinishing a mahogany Chris Craft boat. I have sanded the original varnish to wood and have roughly 3 coats of varnish filler/primer applied with a HVLP unit. I keep getting a low level of “orange peel” which I would like to eliminate with the final coats of varnish, of which 6 to 10 are planned. Is there a method of “tipping” when applying varnish with a spray gun as there is when brushing/rolling? Will my HVLP turbine powered unit deliver a finish comparable to a brush/roller? Rod Zapf rodneyzapf@gmail,com
You should be able to get a smooth finish with your sprayer, if it is of decent quality. You should only need to thin the finish to get it to lay flat. Do some tests to find the point where the finish is too thin and starts to sag on vertical surfaces and mix it just a bit thicker than that. As far as tipping of when spraying, you can do it, but you shouldn’t need to. The gun should apply it smoother than a brush.
I’ve followed all the steps so far but what is the last step- lacquer? What type should I be using? Thank you
The lacquer step is really just a clear coat of your choosing. We use lacquer for speed of application and drying.
How about Shellac? I’ve used it before on tacky stain so that I could move the next finishing step along, and it works great. It literally dries within 2 minutes! It’s thin enough to spray, and you can get it in spray cans….if left alone, it leaves a glossy finish.
Shellac is a great choice. It will do the same work as the sanding sealer. Shellac tends to be a bit gummy sometimes which is the main reason I would choose sanding sealer.
I had a neighbor who had a cottonwood that died 3 years ago; she had it removed and we grabbed a cookie that’s probably about 2.5-3 feet across, one side is probably 4-6 in thick and the thinnest side is about 1-2 in thick; i was aware that it may not be all the way dry but went ahead and sanded it as most of it looked pale and “dry”; of course there’s a crack, this crack was already present and has grown. At the moment it is the only large one and it doesn’t appear that any smaller ones are expanding; it has almost reached the center of the cookie so i was wondering if you think it will stop there? If so it’s actually what i consider an acceptable crack width and almost looks nice but i’m afraid of it falling apart.
My guess is that the crack may continue to open, but since it is just one crack, it probably won’t fall apart. Species like oak, that split easily are more prone to catastrophic failure and breaking into multiple pieces. When you bring the wood inside and it dries more, the split gap will widen.
Thanks for the reply! We’re at the point that it’s sanded and we’re finishing it, do you think it’ll be ok to do that? We’re finishing the top with a polyeurathane stain but aren’t going put the finish in the crack yet. As i mentioned we are more or less alright with the crack but just don’t want it to turn catastrophic, as you said.
It won’t hurt anything to finish it, assuming that it is relatively dry. If you end up having a problem with the finish you can always sand it off and do it again.
Hello, is there a scale we can use to give us an idea on can’t size from various diameter of saw logs?
Not that I know of, but it should be pretty easy to figure out since it is just based on the end diameter of the log and not a volume measurement. BF is trickier because it is a volume measurement based on a conical cylinder and requires more math than most of us can do.
Scott – how do you uncoil one of those monster blades without it biting you? Steve Palmer
I always have to refer to my bandsaw manual to get it right.
Well this post has me almost to the finish line. I hand hewn the beams prior to discovering this post. This has been the perfect help in getting the finish I wanted. One question. Do you spray the gel stain. I am at that step in the process now but I have never sprayed gel stain so I’m curious if you spray or Brush on and wipe off. Thanks and I appreciate you posting this.
The gel stain (glaze) gets brushed on and then wiped off. Glaze could be sprayed, but it is usually too thick to spray.
Would your domino proportions hold up with larger size dominos, especially ones that are hollow and could contain something like bells that would make a sound when they fell.
I have an autistic brother who loves dominos, and sound effects might add to his enjoyment, especially if there were variations in the sounds.
I think the proportions hold up no matter the size. Adding anything like bells could throw off the weight and balance, so I can’t give e definitive answer on that one. That will be trial and error on your part, I think.
I’ve been searching for help on installing a wood beam fire place mantle. I had it cut to size, it was planed and sanded by someone else. it’s been sitting in the basement for 2 years because we are scared to try installing it. The guy sanded it so nice and smooth, but I think I want to rough it up and might take it outside and let the kids beat it with a hammer and some rocks. I’m in Canada, so I don’t know if we have the same products, but because this is above a wood burning fireplace can you recommend products and steps that will make it safe for heat, dusting, and give me the dark old beam look. Also since it is quite heavy and being put on a brick wall, is there anything you can suggest for mounting. Should I put some brackets underneath, drill holes and fit like a sleeve? It’s quite heavy and I believe it is pine, (I forget sorry). Also the fireplace has a lightweight oak mantle, we haven’t taken it off, so we don’t know what is underneath yet.
I don’t know specifics about heat ratings of products, but I imagine that most film coatings, like polyurethane will perform similarly. If it is too hot for one, I think it will be too hot for all. As far as mounting goes, I have a post and video about this here on my blog. This is how I always mount my mantels, so it should work for you too.
https://wunderwoods.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/how-to-install-a-wood-fireplace-mantel-mantle/
Hi,
I have one Walnut unfinished lumber 4″x 16″x 12 feet – about 30 yrs old. What would it’s value be right now? Thank you
That’s a tough one. I really need to see the quality of the wood and if it is dry or not. These things make a big difference.
Scott,
I have a number of oak logs between 8″ and about 12, maybe some larger. There are probably 10 maybe. I’l like to have them cut into disks for projects. Is that something you can do? Thanks for any info!
Doug, we don’t do custom milling. I have several guys that cut for us though, so I should be able to hook you up with someone close. Give me a call at 314-574-6036 and I will try and help out.
Do the same dimensions apply to installing a wooden mantel on a gas fireplace?
I don’t know of any reason for them to be different.
I really like using it to affix blanks to a waste block when turning. I don’t trust turners tape when turning an unbalanced or rough blank. Shooting it with an activator gives an almost immediate bond and I can turn right away. Once formed, I just part it off. I also use it for finishing some pens and rings. It is exceptionally good at filling small voids, as you mentioned.
I do prefer the titebond product over stick-fast. The product seems to be more consistant, and the applicator/cap on the stick-fast seems to be a bit more messy and prone to sealing up if not cleaned immediately.
Hey Scott
Great results! Thanks for your process and detailed description of how to do it.
I have tried to do similiar work with water based stains but don’t get a good result and always go back to oil based.
I’m going to try the same products on an upcoming job.
Thanks again for the sharing your tips and tricks!
Always enjoy your posts, keep up the good work.
Hi there,
Where are you based?
In St. Charles, MO. You should know that I am no longer selling carts or cart parts.
Thanks for going over a good wood finish to do for the outdoors. I had no idea that maintenance in general is important to make sure that the fishing lasts for a long time. Perhaps it could be good to know in advance what maintenance is needed, especially if it depends on the material of the wood or the finish.
The key is to maintain an unbroken film of resin on the surface of the wood. There are so many forces working against it outside that you have no choice but to work on it regularly to guard against failures.
Scott —
this is my new bible for simulated antique wood. I’m going to experiment with these techniques for trestle tables (indoor and out). Your beam treatment is wonderful — I’ve even found an adze on Ebay! I just put a nice sharp top-bevel on it and ready to carve away tomorrow. I’m contemplating how I can put cracks in the wood – maybe split it partially with a splitting maul and then glue the pieces back together to get a nice crack….I love this s**t (stuff)!
cheers!
and thanks for sharing your secret formula!!
WOW. (warning “WOW”)…there is a whole lot of secret formula not included in this article. TransTint is very messy to work with, even when being super careful. Good thing I have a stack of scrap to try it out on. I’m not even getting close to the color results you have here. I know that wood is infinitely variable and YMMV, but this is going to take a lot of experimentation before I even get close to trying it on my trestle table.
BTW, the physical surface prep was the fun part. It’s straight forward to make the wood look hand hewn. I added one step: from previous experience, I used an angle grinder with wire wheel to raise the grain and age the tool marks. Then sanded. That part looks great.
Cant you just fill the crack with a wood filler? Or clay? Or could u just cut the crack out and use the wood cookie as a corner table?
After the wood is dry you can treat the cracks however you like. The main point is that there is usually much more cracking than you would hope for.
I have a large Laurel oak that I will be processing soon . Any recommendations on how or what to do would be highly appreciated if you have the time
Laurel oak is in the red oak family and processes the same. It is pretty easy to work with overall. If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
Hi,
I am making jewelry pendants and I would love to possibly get some of these. Would you ever consider selling them?
Thanks!
Anit
Sorry Anita. We don’t sell the dominos.
I took some heavily-painted maple or birch knobs off an old chest of drawers I decided to refinish and dumped them in a water-based stripper for nearly a day before I got to them. The paint was lifted off tho not all the original finish, but in the process, the round knobs had become oval, and I’ve seen little evidence that they’re returning to their original shape as they dry. Should perhaps have watched them more carefully, but am still astounded. They’re not end-grain turned incidentally. Have any ideas?
Try setting an oven at 150 and letting it run for a day to “kiln” dry the knobs. After that you get what you got.
Hi Scott…Great article…Would you suggest the same technique using a drystack ledge stone that is uneven? What would you do about the gap between the mantle and the stone? I am also going into a mortar scratch coat over metal lath which was tapconned onto plaster that was installed over block.
My mantle is a piece of white oak that is 78x10x6…would 2 5/8 rods do the trick? Thanks so much!!
I would start using the same technique and only abort if you feel that the rods aren’t secure. You have a lot of variables and it sounds like you might be drilling into thin air as well in some spots. After I install the rods, I usually hang on each one to make sure they are as secure as I think they are and you should do the same. If you hit good meat then (2) 5/8 rods will be plenty strong enough. As far as the gap behind the mantel goes, even if the mantel isn’t tight to the stone it usually looks alright. To get it closer to the wall either bust off the front of the worst rocks or remove material out of the back of the mantel. My tool of choice is a chainsaw, but an angle grinder with a wheel for wood works great too.
What lye did you use? Where can I get that?
I used to get Red Devil lye at Home Depot. They no longer carry it. You will have to order it on-line. I don’t have a specific source to recommend.
GREAT tips! Thanks Dude!
Why didn’t I think of that!? Thanks for the tip.
A real man knows the value of glitter clean up.
Hi,
I’m having the same problem when using epoxy resin on a rudder i built with marine plywood (okume). The rudder is brand new so there isn’t any finish, wax or silicone on it….
I tried to sand it with both 100 and 200 grit and the problem is still there.
I really have no idea what to do! I’m going mental!!
Make that six-plank construction (hard to see with dark stain), with a maximum 5/16 deviation on one end of the finished side (3-4/16 on the other).
Having finish on one side makes things trickier. The side with finish will change slowly and the unfinished side will change quickly. All of my tricks will still work, but you need to compensate for the finish, which means drying out the finished side will take much longer. If the top of the rainbow is on the finished side (which is what I think you were describing), you will need to put that side in the sun to dry it out, but wait hours instead of just minutes.
Thanks for the reply! Got a little more info from the maker… Silver maple, stained and coated with acrylic poly on top and sides. Glued butt-joints.
The finished top is the dry (concave) side. The slab was kiln dried to 5% moisture–but they never coated the bottom, so here I am.
Basically, I need to dry out the UNfinished (convex) side of the slab.
Does the bottom of the cup being on the UNFINISHED side change things?
Are you saying this puppy will bow back in minutes? (I was thinking it would take all day…) Upper 90s – 100+ here, maybe 40-50-% humidity. Los Angeles area.
Will wood and acrylic poly stretch that fast without cracking?
Can I coat it hot, in the sun, when it flattens out?
Sorry for all the Qs; this is new to me–thanks again!
Great article. I have been in the tree business for 36 years now. I have owned a sawmill since 2005. Now that I am retired I have started milling lumber for many projects around the house. I am looking for logs to purchase. If you are close to Uxbridge and have any for sale please contact me
Months later I finally finished leveling and staining our wood mantle. Thanks for answering my questions. Finished work: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl689zOAlrA/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=p0lwkykvf1wq
absolutely LOVE your log staircase! makes me wish i lived in a 2 storey house!
Hi Scott, interesting article. If a cookie is sealed in epoxy after cutting, would that cease the drying process and prevent the splitting? And perhaps the epoxy itself would provide structural support holding the wood in position to prevent the separation?
Not sure. Never tried it. My guess is that the wood will still eventually dry out and crack along with the epoxy. If you seal it well enough the water will be sealed inside and cause other issues like mold and rot.
Hey Scott, I guess I’m the odd man out because I love my Pin Oak lumber. I made an island for the kitchen, plenty of picture frames, bowls, and a variety of other misc. stuff. I will concede I had to cut around a lot of knots that drop out after the lumber is dry but it was worth it to me since I didn’t pay for the log (harvested out of my own woods) and only paid 12 cents per board foot to have it milled. I love the grain and whether stained or natural its a beautiful finish.
Bill Henry
Pin oak can be acceptable and even sometimes be quite cool, but on average, and way more than I prefer to deal with, it isn’t so great. If I didn’t have other species to choose from on a regular basis, I would probably mill it an hope for the best. Since I have plenty of other species available, pin oak is at the very bottom of my list. This past weekend at an art show, I ran into a very nice bowl made of spalted pin oak. The growth rings were tight and there was almost no way to distinguish it from another red oak. Decent, even exceptional pin oak does exist, but it just isn’t the norm.
Scott, are you familiar with Kentucky Coffee, or called American Walnut in the North. I have read accounts of fence posts made from it lasting over 50 yrs, in the ground. I had several American Walnuts downed from storms in May of 2015. Had then milled in Dec. of 2016 and the wood is beautiful, no sign of any rot after laying on the ground all that time. Obtained 6ft to 16ft slabs, live edge, 14″ to 24″ width, 2″ and 2.5″ thickness. Basically, are you familiar with, and, any comments. Thank you
Jesse Beatty
I have only milled kentucky coffeetree once, so I don’t know much about it. I can’t comment from first-hand knowledge on its durability. The wood looks like honeylocust and not far off from red oak.
Scott, My mistake, it is called American Mahogany in Pennsylvania region. In the South it is known as Kentucky Coffee, and is a beautiful grain. I really should be more rested before posting anywhere! Thanks for the great site you have.
Jesse
Scott, The input, very helpful, and ideas gleamed from your site are what I have been looking for. Currently making a live edge dining table for my wife out of the milled slabs from downed American Walnut, sometimes called Kentucky Coffee in the South. Built my own small kiln in an older shop area.
Jesse Beatty
Scott, My mistake, the logs I had milled are American Mahogany, NOT Walnut, or otherwise known as Kentucky Coffee in the Southern regions.
Thanks for such a great information site.
Jesse
I have a 40 year old black walnut tree i will take down need a quote on buying the logs bill 314 885 8216 south county saint louis
I don’t buy logs, but a 40-year old walnut tree will probably not be worth too much, even if you got it to someone that does buy logs.
What a great article! Have you ever tried this technique with a piece of pressure treated pine? For our kitchen rennovation, we are installing a post that needs to be PT due to proximity of soil-line under the floor (no crawlspace). We are looking for a rustic look but I’m not sure we can get that with PT pine. So we are also considering wrapping the post with some cedar and doing the hand-hewn look on that. Any thoughts appreciated!!
I haven’t tried it with pressure treated pine, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. It’s still pine, just with a few additives. The color will be affected by the treatment process, but that should be easy to adjust.
Great article, and thanks for taking the time to put it on the web. I have a few forest grown logs on my property in Pike County, MO. Will be having a timber stand assessment done after deer season is over. It’s a little confusing why MDC quotes Stumpage sawlog High price of $3880, and an average log at $2600. yet your telling me that if I cut and haul my logs to the mills/buyer, I’m likely to only see 1/4 of that quoted price? Where does the discrepancy lie? Also, I’m curious, as a grower/producer will the IRS expect me to claim the sale as capital gains. Any advice for would be log sellers?
Thanks again for this forum.
The MDC sawlog price list can vary dramatically. The high price is not the high price you can expect to get, it is the high price from one single report. They may only have four reports in a particular time period, the results of which will be highly swayed by a single report. Go through multiple reports and look at the average stumpage price. For example, the average on walnut is about $1,200 for 1000bf or $1.20 per bf. That’s a far cry from $3,880. The $3,880 was one report which may have had all fantastic logs purchased by an excited buyer and not represent an average. When the chart says “average” is doesn’t mean “average” log, it means an average of all the reports. The average of logs other than walnut is about 25¢ per board foot at stumpage prices. Cut and delivered to to a sawmill, the prices will be higher. Your final price is, of course, determined by the quality of your logs, and one of the key points of my article is that your logs may not be as good as you think they are. If you know what you are doing, only cut high quality logs and sell to a great buyer, your prices will be higher. Most people I run into, especially anyone asking for advice, don’t have this perfect scenario, so my warning is to set your expectations lower and more realistic.
As far as capital gains, I have no input on that one.
the prices you have listed for this above comment ($1,200 for 1000 bf) is Stump-age prices. not ” logs delivered prices” I guess it really depends where you are and what not, but in illinois. DNR has a website the gives people the low/high/and average money paid for stumpage and logs delivered. https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/conservation/Forestry/Documents/IllinoisTimberPricesWinter2017_18.pdf It has not updated for 2018 yet im sure it will in feb in a couple of weeks, but you still get the idea. the picture above of the walnut laying in the driveway you said 250bf of high quality wood was worth 500 bucks. I’m not bashing but I feel your prices are low but considering your profession it would not benefit you to give more accurate pricing.
Greg, I took a look at the link you included and the average price for walnut is around $2,000 per 1,000 bf or $2 per bf. You will get paid more if the logs are delivered to the mill. I know that in my area $2 per bf. is the going rate, delivered to the mill. Of course, there are higher prices and lower prices being paid, but I think that is a good average.
I also understand your concern that I have no reason to state higher prices given the business I am in, but I seldom buy logs, so I have no real incentive to post inaccurate prices. I write this blog to be as educational as possible with the most accurate information available at the time.
Thanks for the link. I am sure others will find it helpful.
Thank you for the helpful tips. What top coat would you recommend that does not give the wood a shiny plastic finish?
Great ideas. You might want to try ZAR wiping stain rather than Minwax gel stain. I’ve been using ZAR for several years and love it. It applies easily, allows you to blend as you wipe it on and dries quickly.
Many stains work as a glaze on coated wood. Oil-based stains allow long working times, thinned latex paint has a short working time and gel stains are in the middle. Wiping stains are usually between oil-based stains and gel stains for working times.
Dear sir, thank you for the information. I have a large “Osmanthus” bush that I thought would be great pruned into a Large Domino ! ( a two, one Spot!). So that’s 2 metres high, 1m wide, 0.3m thick. Many thanks and regards Ben Clay.
If a homeowner had a rather large Maple tree that branches off into 5 different trunks, wasn’t interested in getting any money for it but thinks it would be a shame to see it turned into firewood only, how would they go about seeing if anyone would be interested in having it?
The answers would range depending on where you are at. The best universal answer I can give is to find a local sawyer and start there. A smaller operation would probably be more interested than a large one. Wood-Mizer will share a list of mill owners in your area which may also help.
Check with your local woodturning club (there probably is one). The more convoluted and crazy the tree looks, the more ‘figure’ it has in the wood, and the better they like it. But wood of that sort is commonly given away (being good for nothing but turning and firewood), so expect only a “cut it and haul it away for free” deal.
Hi,
I have about 16m3 of really ancient oak logs. One is about 1500 years and the rest all about 1000 years old.
They are large in diameter and I can send you photos if you care.
Is there a market for such logs. I hear about crazy prices people pay for this.
My email is below so send me yours if you want to see the photos.
Sincerely,
Vladimir
Someone local would be better to ask. I’m not sure about logs like that.
I’d like to apply your process to wood beams I’m using as steps up to a deck. Would an exterior application need to be different? I was considering a marine varnish as my last coat(s) for something stronger outside. Wasn’t sure if I could still do the gel stains? When I looked up trans tints they say not for exterior.
I’m not a proponent of outdoor woodworking in general because it is a losing battle. The sun and rain will always win in the end. With that said, this technique can be used outside though the results may be relatively short lived. The longest lasting finish I have used is Sikkens Cetol for exterior applications, which will last for up to three years with no maintenance. I have also heard good things about Epiphanes, but I haven’t used it. Gel stains will work though I can’t attest to their strength outside. Same for Transtint. All colors will fade outside, it is just a matter of how long they take to fade. Unfortunately, without a lot of real world exterior experience I can’t recommend any that last longer. You will have to take the label’s word for it.
I have three pieces of hickory that have been down since June. I just cut a 6”x12”x6’ mantel and two supports that are 4”x6”x36”. My question is would you be willing to finish drying them in your kiln?
We don’t offer kiln drying for others, however I wouldn’t recommend kiln drying that wood anyway. The pieces are too big for a conventional kiln to do much in a reasonable time frame. I would install them wet and let them dry in place.
Thinking about buying the Titan Capspray 115 HVLP. Is this a good rig? What would you add to it if anything ?
We use a Titan Capspray 4-stage unit in the shop. It works well, with no real problems. The 4-stage has plenty of power for anything woodworking. The 6-stage will be the same setup with more power. Increased power is only necessary for extra heavy/thick finishes at full strength. It is overkill for our purposes. Even if you ended up underpowered, all you have to do is thin your finish a bit. At $1,700, I wouldn’t buy it unless you sprayed a lot and really determined that you needed it. Any brand name 4-stage would be great (Apollo, Titan, Fuji). You should be in the $800-$1,000 range. For a bit of perspective, we also use a 1988 model 2-stage Graco with pressure pot on a daily basis. It has a lot less power, but it can move thinner finishes nicely with very little overspray. The Titan will fog the place out. I imagine a 6-stage machine will fog out the neighborhood.
You’re correct Scott. It is a lot of work, but it’s a fun job and you can turn out a wood product from start to finish. Truly your own creations.
I remember those “old days’ when you used to cut the logs with the chainsaw, but by the time we were working together it was the circular Lucas Mill all the way. I still have just a precious little bit of that Walnut you cut for me, now more than 20 years old (man WE are old). With no time to woodwork any more, I sure miss those days…
Thanks for the memories.
thanks for the article. very informative. I’ve been trying to research selling some of our trees. the biggest problem i think, if i understand the research so far, is that some of these massive trees are along a creek. They’re mostly ginormous oaks but a mix of hickory, black walnut, choke cherry, elms, sycamore. I think the ones that are 4-5 feet in diameter are bur oaks because of the acorns. Some of their branches are dead but the trees aren’t.
The issue is there is creek erosion. while I understand tree roots hold banks together, the roots are exposed enough to make the current trees unstable. A couple might have even been hit by lighting. It’s hard to tell. I don’t want to get to close to them because of the dead branches so high up.
annnnyway, my question is about cutting trees along a creek. I think i read only up to 20% of the trees can be removed. We don’t want to clear cut the area but do want to cut these old dangerous trees and replant immediately with new trees, shrubs, and plants to stabilize the banks. That’s what I read was the way to stabilize a bank. Because these trees are so large we weren’t sure if they’d be worth money. Obviously we’d need some professional advice from a forester, which we are planning on doing. Just curious if you had any input. Thanks and happy new year
I salvage urban logs, so I will have very little helpful input on working along creeks. It sounds like you are worried about the logs being too big and I can’t imagine how that would be a problem. For me bigger is always better.
Wonderful post!! Went exactly as you described and turned out better than I could’ve hoped!! Thank you!!
Hi Scott, thanks for the article. I have a question. I have 2 tables from the same red oak tree that I made. I used cookies. The log dried for 2 years. I cut the rounds, planed the rounds and epoxied the cracks. Then sanded and finished with Watco Danish oil and a few coats of poly. The tables have been in use for 2 months and I just noticed they both cracked. What could I have done to avoid the cracking since they dried for many months. Also what can I do now to avoid more cracking?
Thanks, Sandi
Cracking is part of the process of the wood drying out because it shrinks and doesn’t to it evenly. Coating the wood simply slows down the drying process, it does not eliminate it. I assume that you brought the wood inside and it dried more than it was when you finished it, causing it to shrink more and crack more. I am afraid that I have no foolproof advice to avoid further cracking. If it is still drying out it will continue to crack.
I have about 100 popular and the mill has offered $106 per tree and I thought that appeared a little low (although I realize it’s not cherry), and will leave thee stumps and scraps. Which will then take about 4 K to chip. Thoughts and thanks in advance!
I am not sure on poplar pricing, though I imagine it to not be very high. You will need to get a better idea of the board footage in each tree to figure out the price per board foot and determine if it is low. That could be a great price if your trees are small and low-grade or it could be a low price if your trees are giant and high-grade.
Thank you for enlightening me. I had no idea about two of the giants (Siberian Elms) I reluctantly had to cut down because in snow storms they would drop enormous limbs in the driveway breaking through power lines. I have a third one I was told is an American Elm. This tree I kept because it’s beautiful, shady, and never drops limbs. (Also isn’t lifting my driveway with roots as the others did). I found your page while searching for advice regarding the huge trunk cuttings of the Siberian’s which I kept. I’m wanting to make furniture like live edge slabs for coffee tables, outdoor benches, etc. Do you think this type of wood would be good to use for this purpose?
Thank you for any advice.
You are correct. Siberian elms are not great trees, while American elms are, at least as far as trees go. As far as lumber goes, I am a fan of all elms. They tend to not dry flat, but generally work fine with power tools. I think the Siberian elms tend to be the showiest with wild grain and desirable imperfections. Plan on using them for your woodworking projects and having great results. I wouldn’t plan on using them for outdoor furniture because they aren’t as durable as other woods and they do tend to twist in the weather.
These are so beautiful. Where or how can I get planks mitered in that shape? I would like to try this.
We mill those custom for each order. They are made using a miter lock bit and a router table.
It sounds like Neil is averaging the bid by the number of trees, and I suspect that they bid by the board foot, although they may have only given him a total ($10,600). From his comment it sounds like it is a stumpage bid and will be quite a bit lower than a p/bf delivered at the mill. If they averaged 1 – 24″x16′ log in each tree (400 bf), that would be about .25 p/bf stump value (not too bad).
I have 11 butternut and black wallnut logs. All are 4 sides clear and straight. Ranging from 16 to 19 in in diameter ..they are all cut 10ft 6 in .. I’m just wondering if someone knew a round about estimate in value.. even a educated guess would help me based on at least knowing where to at least start when I gather them all … I have a pretty good hill before my woods and yard meet so also trying to figure out if they are worth getting out
That’s a tough one without all of the details. Those aren’t huge diameters, so they won’t be super valuable. My best guesstimate would be $100 each for an average, which is $1 per board foot. It depends a lot on the quality.
I think I have a pretty nice walnut tree in my yard. Is there a minimum diameter for a tree to produce good lumber? Can a complete amateur like myself access that lumber with simple tools?
We usually are around 13″-15″ inside the bark on the skinny end to make a tree worth the time to mill, and that is often pushing it. Since you are doing this for yourself and not trying to meet any production goals, I would say 12″ would be a good limit, though you can still get lumber of smaller logs. If you have a chainsaw, you can mill the lumber pretty easily with an Alaskan chainsaw mill.
Thank you. I appreciate all I have learned here. Very informative.
I have a red oak tree which is about 120′ tall and about 72 ” in diameter at the base. It is very straight and has no other branches for about the first 70′. I will be taking it down soon due to the proximity to an outdoor project, but wondered if there was anyway to tell how many bf it would generate?
Yes, with accurate numbers. You will need diameters at the skinny end of the logs at a certain length to use the Doyle scale. Since the tree is still standing this won’t be easy, but you should be able to make some inferences from measuring places you can reach. I will tell you though that the sizes you mentioned seem very, very big for a red oak. They can get that big, but it sounds like you are overestimating a bit. A 70′ tree is tall, 70′ of trunk without branches would be incredible. 40′ would be long.
Thanks. It was taken down on Monday. Here is a link to the pictures. They estimated 120’ to 130’. Hard to tell but with the crane in view it provides better perspective.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oq44Gjkehmv_1MxYHN_d6DZ_zMsYEn-d
Scott…..I’m looking for 6-8 carts in any condition that would be used as part of a set design for a show of sorts, so not necessarily furniture condition. i see from your replies that you’re out of the cart business but do you have a line on any that someone might have for sale or auction? Anywhere in the upper midwest would be good, Chicago best.
Sorry, I do not. I have kept my nose out of it as of late.
I have 8 factory carts I will sell, not all Lineberry’s, some Towsley, and others. I live in Asheboro, NC, and can load transfer trucks and palletize the carts. $275 each in unfinished condition. All hardware intact.
Are you still selling carts? Im in Oregon.
Sorry, I am not. All the carts we have left are used in the shop.
Yes, I have probably 20 plus carts in as-is condition. I have a Lineberry Daisy Wheel cart from the late 40’s, early 50’s that is like new condition. Just finished a Lineberry large wheel cart with all new white oak frame and decking and original hardware. Also have a rebuilt cart with Cherry wood decking screwed from the bottom. Are you looking for a project or one that has been refurbished?
My email is- martindanco@aol.com
I have been looking for one of these carts for months…no years. But so many sellers had them overpriced. Is there any way you would have one to sell? If so, could you send me a picture, dimensions and price. I think I have someone here in Atlanta that could restore it for me. Please reply to my email. I don’t have a website. Thanks!
Sorry, I have no more to sell.
Send me an email with your email address and I will send you some pictures. I have 2 rebuilt Lineberrys- one Daisey wheel cherry wood deck, one big wheel all white oak, rebuilt using white oak frames and original hardware, original stencil and several that need restoration or use as is. Rebuilt ones $450 , unrestored as is-$275. I can palletize and ship on transfer truck, you arrange the trucking. I have loading docks. Asheboro, NC.
Scott
I would like to recreate a beam to look like yours. Can you give me the ratios that you used?
Dark Mission Brown for the sap wood:
Mixture of Honey Amber and Medium Brown for the rest of the beam:
How much Medium Brown did you mix with the sanding sealer?
How much Medium Brown in the final sealer?
Beautiful beam !!!!
thanks Gary
Sorry Gary, I cannot tell you the ratios. I don’t measure anything and adjust until I like it. I’m famous in the shop for being so cavalier with the stains. If you get the basics, like the darker edges, and generally get the colors right it will look good. You should do some samples first to make sure you like it.
Thank you for an interesting and informative article! If I’m lucky enough to find a cookie that’s been dried for one or more years without cracking, would it be unlikely to crack in the future? Or can cracking suddenly happen at any time during the cookie’s use as a table?
The cracking occurs due to wood shrinking when it dries out. Once the wood is dry, it shouldn’t crack more.
Great article……I have a number of rounds that I have been drying out for several months (not treated), some have cracked and some not. I was wondering when is the wood considered dried?
I have a moisture meter to check levels and it’s showing 20% moisture, so I’m guess they are still drying. What % should they be to be considered dry?
Many Thanks
It depends on where you live, or where the wood will live. Here in St. Louis equilibrium moisture content (emc) is 9%. Throughout the US, the range is about 6%-11%.
Thanks….I’m in the UK, the rounds will be for indoor use eventually
Thanks Scott
I finished my beam and it turned out great. I thought the dye stain was fairly easy to work with. I found a web site on mixing instructions for the trans tint, it gave me somewhere to start.
Jackie
question: I bought 12-11- 16″X 1/2″ thick 1- 18″X 2″ thick —slices of wood from a guy for my granddaughter’s wedding. The wedding is not until Oct. and the wood pcs. are cracking around the edges. I put used some water and soaked them and they went back together, however I brought them in the house and they started cracking again. My question can I put water on them so the crack will close up and as soon as it dries, can I put the Pentacryl wood stabilizer on the slices to keep them until Oct.??
question:
Good question. I think you can. Pentacryl basically replaces the water, keeping the wood from shrinking. I’m not sure if the wood cares if the water was in it originally or if you added it. I would certainly try it.
Informative I have 500 or more Oak logs on my property Central Fl for sale any interest or more info?
Sorry, I don’t purchase logs.
Hi
I’m looking for a 3” x 3” x 72” piece of mahogany I can carve to be a walking stick while I’m home recuperating from back surgery June 26.
Got any that are close in size or even another wood? Spalted or solid.
Don’t want to waste your time or my time driving out if you don’t have anything close.
(Trying to avoid ODing on TV.)
I
Thanks for checking in, but I’m going to say probably not. Definitely not in mahogany. We only cut 3″ on larger slabs and then only occasionally.
What type or brand or epoxy are you using? My concrete stakes and going thru 3 1/2″ of wall stud into the brick of the fireplace about 2″. I can find plenty of epoxy for steel and masonry bonding but not wood. What do you recommend? I was looking at the SIKA AnchorFix 2.
We just use 5 minute epoxy available at any hardware store. It is a thicker mix and works well for staying in the holes and not running out. Loctite, DAP, Gorilla, JB Weld all work fine. You are just looking for something to set up in the holes and harden up. I don’t think it matters what is officially for in this case. It is all just liquid plastic.
Scott, I’ve read the article over 20 times and attempted this install. The 5/8 drill bit didn’t seem big enough for the stakes as I couldn’t get them comfortably through the stone without a little cracking happening. Would a bigger bit be appropriate? Or other suggestions? Also I have a 6 foot piece of wood that is 8 inches by 8 inches, fairly large, are you confident two stakes would work?
Thanks,
Andy
The 5/8″ bit tends to wander in the stone or mortar, making the hole larger than 5/8″. If the hole is too tight I wallow the bit around in the hole making more room for the stake. Using a larger drill bit won’t hurt anything, but it will take more shimming and/or epoxy to make the stakes tight in the hole. As far as the number of stakes go, two will be fine. Just make sure to test each one for strength before you put up the mantel.
Finally got this project done! Thanks for the help wunderwoods!! Wish I could take a picture to share. Thanks again
Great article. I had a harvest last fall of 122 walnut trees. Seeing the tops laying on the ground, I couldn’t stand to watch them rot and decided to remove the crotches and hire a portable sawmill. Each pass of the mill was like Christmas morning as the wonders of nature were revealed. I plan on using most of the slabs for boat parts such as breasthooks, knees, stems, and thwarts.
Just wanted to compliment you on a most informative site. It is so helpful to understand the reason why to visualize what is happening (and hopefully correct). Keep up the great work!
Vince King
I cut a Beech down, the stump appears to have six hearts, I cut a 9 inch slab of for a step for my whirlpool tub, the tree was green, trying to dry the cookie, not really worried about splits as long as don’t get too bad, it’s was on my front porch couple of weeks, started raining so i brung it inside. Any suggestions
I have better luck with the multiple heart pieces. It will probably crack, but not fall apart. Just let it dry evenly and slowly on both sides.
I learned a lot from the questions/answers here. I am about to start my first slice project on a cedar piece that was in someone else’s collection, already dries. One thing I didn’t read here what do you sand first or seal first? Thanks.
Sand first.
sorry, I misspoke-do I stabilize first before sanding? My cedar slice was cut in 2014, dried indoors so I am guessing it won’t split when I sand it? I am going to fill some open areas with epoxy as well as remove the bark.
You have passed the time to worry about stabilizing the wood. It should be ready to be epoxy-filled and sanded after you remove the bark. Then go ahead and finish it.
Does using dried seasoned wood relieve this issue? i.e. I have a tree that was failed two years ago and cut into 18″ sections and has been stacked outside. If the log has dried will it crack in the sections that I cut the cookie from if it hasn’t already cracked?
Wood moves the most from green to 20% moisture content (air-dried). If your chunks are truly dried throughout before cutting the cookies they shouldn’t crack any more than they are now. However, even after two years the 18″ long sections can still be wet inside depending on where and how they were stored.
What is the best way to tell if there is metal in a log?
This would be a good blog post. I look for stains on the end of the log, bumps under the bark at about 5′ off of the ground and I pay attention to where the log was at, especially if it was close to a fence line. If I am not sure, I just cut it and see what happens. I used to try and cut out the metal, but it just wrecks the logs and I still end up missing some of it. If a log has metal in it, it usually has more than one piece.
Boil the roots for a tea is the only medical use I know of for sassafras. The “oldtimers” said drink the tea in the early spring to thin your blood after a long winter spent mostly indoors. Too bitter for me.
Dry and grind the leaves for Cajun seasoning called “file.”
We made boat paddles out of sassafras way back before we got fancy and had electric trolling motors. Very light and strong, wouldn’t soak up water and wouldn’t rot.
i had been wanting to do live edge furniture for a long time after seeing some examples in magazines and on the internet. Four years ago i found Scott in a craigslist add selling some slabs, i ended up buying 4 slabs and been hooked ever sense. i mostly do furniture for just myself and some family members but recently sold a bed i made. Scott your a hell of a craftsman and if i ever need a special piece for a project i will be giviing you a call again!
Great job with the first post- I love seeing what y’all are doing! Temptations abound. Any chance we can know what each of those pieces is made from? Thanks,
Sarah
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Thanks Sarah! I updated the captions to note the species of wood used for each. -Chris
Beautiful work Scott! I love seeing artistic things done with salvaged wood!
I love the lasered nature scene and the nice grain match on the top and bottom rails. Well done!!
Very cool, Scott. Great job on the art work. I know absolutely nothing about lasering wood. How is that done?
Beautiful work, Scott. Thank you for the post, Chris.
Is there any chance of a close up photo that shows how the turnbuckle is attached at the top and bottom?
Not from us. Table is finished and gone. Since it is bar stock, we were able to drill a small hole the diameter of the cable and feed the cable through. On the back side, we swaged on a ferrule to keep the cable from pulling through.
Very nice!!
Unique table! nicely done.
beautiful artistic blend of natural and industrial look.
My experience is that the cookies will always split – without exception. That is the nature of wood. As with all carpentry you have to design your piece to work with the wood rather trying to fight it against it. Make some sort of feature with the crack. Trying to disguise it will look like a bit of a cobble up when the grain does not line up. Make a feature of the crack by filling, or covering it with something contrasting. I use burr wood to fill or cover many large faults and it looks as though it is a deliberate attractive design feature. The more wavy the stitched in burr the more attractive the feature it will be. But as always your wood has to be very dry!
I’m looking for 1 six inch end wheel any help with one or where I can look.
What type of cart and is the wheel you are looking for have a swivel post with a carter pin hole on top to hold it on? I have a few odd wheels from Lineberry and Towsley carts.
That table is fabulous! Did you use any stain or is it just polyurethane?
No stain. Just a clear topcoat (Krystal conversion varnish).
Scott, I have a 20′ Grizzly planer which came with a 4 blade cutter head, it was very loud – ear protection was a must. When I bought it I also bought the Byrd helical cutter head, thinking that I would use the straight blades for rougher planing jobs, and the Byrd for finish planing. One change over and that idea when out the window. Took about 3 hours to change it out, including pulling and pressing bearings. The helical head is so quiet that I’m not likely to ever change it back. It is quieter than the dust collector that I have hooked up to it.
A few years back I purchase a Grizzly 15″ dual speed with a spiral cutter head. Running it on the slower speed yeilds a finish that almost doesn’t need sanding. Now I can’t wait to swap out my Joiner to one with a spiral cutter head. It is the only way to go.
I installed a Shelix cutter head on my Ridgid planer and it does great with the one exception of power. With cutters constantly engaged, it can’t cut as deep due to loading the motor down to much. I also have one on my jointer. Both have really smooth results.
Saw your post on using your belt sander for sharpening bandsaw blades. I also use mine for sharpening. Also great for mower blades! The reason I’m replying is because I just bought a cheapo wen 1\2×18″ and use to sharpen stuff. I think it might work on your band saw blades.
Love this door , very original. Peter , Sydney Australia
I am needing a 18 in wide by 24 in long live edge piece… Can you sell that? Price??
I am sure we have something like that. An unfinished, rough cut slab would be in the $75-$100 range. To finish is $70/sq. ft.
Where can I purchase one of these pieces ?
Give us a call at 314-574-6036.
I have a black walnut tree that I’ve got to remove for a extension on an existing farm house. It has a great log on it and we don’t want it to just get junked with the rest of the trimmings we have to do (we have oak limbs to take down on several trees) Any idea on who may want the log? There isn’t a huge lumber circle in our area.
It shouldn’t be too hard to find a home for it. Every construction crew I have ever met has at least one guy on it that would do something with a good log, I’m sure you won’t have to advertise much. Too bad you aren’t close to St. Louis.
good to get this perspective, Stars are gone from my eyes . i have Eastern or norhtern white pine that is 7ft diameter at eye level. coming down. been fretting over cutting some nice beams out of it. Not sure where i find a mill that big. Thought at least we could make some fat benches out of 12″ square profiles. First branch is about 14 ft so that might be alot of wood. But going to forget it and count the rings and be done. thinking its 250 hrs years old comparing to one I saw come down about 20 years in same area.
Just came across this post as I embark on an eastern white pine dining table. I want it to be sturdy, and age naturally with use, dings and all. Great inspiration!
Good article, thanks for sharing.
Hello, we have some freshly milled white pine stair treads. We are trying to determine how quickly we should put a finish on them. Or if we should wait to let them dry. One source says to put a finish on sooner than later and another source says to wait a couple months to Let them dry. We are concerned because they are starting to get some cracks in
them. What is your experience with this issue and advice, please? Thank you!
The wood should be dry before you try to finish it. The wood will crack some during drying, which is normal, but shouldn’t be too bad in pine. Finishing before it is dry won’t really help anything.
Loved every word in the article. Thank you Scott for all ‘the way it is’ facts. 44years ago 15 miles from where we lived in Northwest Ohio, a man sold 18 walnut trees for $80,000. That’s $362,000 in 2020 dollars! I soon planted 1000 seedlings in my woods thinking I’d be pretty well off by now They all died within a couple of years so no big deal. We do have that nice 10 acre woods yet and another nice 10 acre woods here IN Fort Wayne with many mature walnut, black cherry, cottonwood, etc. They are all my friends, so won’t think of cutting a heathy one:).Here is the direct link about the big buck trees. https://www.nytimes.com/1976/12/30/archives/perfect-walnut-tree-is-among-18-sold-for-80000.html . Take care, Dale.
I’ve heard lots of stories like this. Wish I could validate them somehow. Those prices are unbelievably high. I just can’t imagine what the final products were for the logs to command so much money.
We have several big black walnut trees in our yard that are more of a nuisance then anything else. Can you suggest how to go about having these trees cut down so that we could possibly get some money for the wood? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
This would be a great future blog post. The problem is that there is much more to it than just cutting the trees, mostly the marketing. Anyway, the simple part is cut it as low to the ground as possible and leave them long. If you are more experienced and know the market to which you are selling, it would make sense to trim them tightly to specific lengths. But, since you don’t leave them long and let the buyer make the trimming decisions.
Do you still have these walnut trees available?
Sorry, I do not.
Sorry, I do not.
I have two cypress trees that are about 45 – 50 tall and need to get them cut down. One is 6 feet from the house and they drop branches from time to time. How would I go about finding a mill to sell the logs to after cut down? I live in the St Louis, Mo area.
I am pretty sure you will find no one to purchase cypress logs. Not that they are all bad, just no market for them in the St. Louis area.
I have been given a few pieces of fir about 32 in dia and 3 in thick They are about two years old so pretty dry. I have cut a 30 in dia piece of plywood and screwed to the underside in the hopes this will prevent further splitting. Then from the top I have filled the cracks with wood glue and sawdust. Time will tell if this works. One cookie had split completely in two so I made two table tops which kinda fit together.
Thanks for explaining this. I”m midway in a project to improve the R-value of a steel door by applying a 1/4″ veneer of oak to it with contact cement. Will the cement seal the wood while not adding moisture to the same degree as paint I apply to the exposed side? Should I seal the wood first before cementing? Should I screw in and countersink some screws to help the cement out?
The cement and the door it is glued too will seal the back side appropriately, and you don’t need to seal the wood first. I don’t think adding screws will help anything.
I have a piece of white elm similar to this and want to use as wall art so I want a finish that brings out the grain. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Bob
I like to use lacquer. You might want to try danish oil before the lacquer to help even more. Test them on a scrap piece to see what you like best.
Thank you so much for posting your clever beam work here. I am about to do the same style faux beams in our house and the only thing I could not get past was the best light stain for pine. Your expertise and comments solved the problem for me and I will be ordering precisely these water soluble trans-tint colors and having at it.
Again, thanks!
Looks great! What sheen is that? Satin?
It is satin, though lately we have drifted more towards dull.
I don’t know much about this subject, but many years ago I was offered $1500/pc for 3 walnut trees. Since then I’ve been curious about why some trees are worth a lot and others are not.
I used to live in the ROC, and have visited several factories that make furniture in the ROC and in the PRC. I’ve seen antique tables that were made from single 1 or 2 inch sections of 4-8′ diameter tree trunks that sold for huge amounts. In 1980’s dollars the prices averaged US$400 to US$800. One table from Africa cost US$30,000. Wood harvesting was restricted to dead trees only, but the mills often found live trees they wanted and somehow those trees were dead for the next harvest.
My brother cut down a 4′ diameter red oak last week and split it for firewood. It was in a neighborhood. He called a mill, but they said that it would be too dangerous to haul it out. I was wondering how much it may have been worth if it could have been taken to a mill, or if there are mobile mills that could handle something like that.
I tried to use the Doyle Scale as you mentioned in another comment to calculate it. It was nearly 4′ diameter at the large end, it was a straight trunk with a split about 30′ up, between 2-3 feet at the top end. If I’ve done it right, that’s about 1000′ bf. So I see prices from US$250 up to $1200.
I don’t feel so bad about him splitting it after reading this article. I guess it was a lot of firewood, which would have cost him around US$65/rick. I still think that it would have been better to make something like tables from it though. It just seems like a tree that big and old deserves a bit of respect. Burning it for firewood seems disrespectful. I would think that a tree with that diameter could be better used for building something.
I would like to see it used for more than firewood as well. That’s what got me into this business. The problem is when it becomes a business transaction everything becomes less rosy. There often just isn’t much money to be made in one log.
I’m curious about the price
We sell wide, figured slabs for around $20 bf.
I purchased a 2-stage Fuji sprayer and am excited to use it. I tried to pick up some lacquer at the big box stores, but all of the options specifically said not to apply the product with anything other than a brush. Where can I buy lacquer that is appropriate for spraying in my new gun? Any specific brand recommendations?
I have a 50 cm diameter round cutting board with hairline cracks. A syringe wont fit in the cracks. I guess it’s fine to use. My concern is bacteria. What can I do in this situation?
Nick
We use thin super glue to repair small cracks. You can use it to bond the broken pieces and to fill gaps. Use an accelerator with it for quick results.
The seamed seems to have a more pronounced grain. The unsteamed has more color variation. I like both.
How much more does steamed wood cost?
Steaming doesn’t really affect price.
I have adapted the WunderWizz sander to apply french polish. Just be sure to wring your pad out a bit before you execute flight……..Thanks Scott!
I have had the fortune of acquiring 6 fully grown and dead American elms. All that you have stated in your article is accurate. After drying and planning them, I am nothing short of excited to create a amazing collection of woodcraft products with this wood
I recently hauled Black Cherry logs off an historic property in Wilmington, Delaware and came across your article while researching how big these trees get as this one unusually large. The tree was 50 inches DBH. The butt log is 11 feet long 43inches on the small end 60 on the flare and 9800 pounds. I have 2 more of the trunk at 10.5 feet 43 to 41 inches. I was expecting to see it hollow like the 68 inch DBH tulip poplar that was also removed next to it. It was sad to have these trees need to be removed, but their canopies were heavily damaged in last years storms and were a hazard.
I recently had a 3′ diameter maple tree taken down. I left the stump at a 4′ height to use as an outdoor table for game players. My plan was to finish the top well enough to clearly read annual rings and label family and historical events going back 100 years and then epoxy seal top. I am familiar with pentacryl, having used it in other outdoor wood sculptures. Given that this is not a cookie but a stump, will I be favored with less cracking or more. Also had planned to carve trout going around the stump (very high relief), leaving a 3 inch top thickness. Assume that doing the trout will expose the top (as with cookies) more and promote cracking. Also, as a recently cut tree….how long should I wait before doing anything?
I am not sure how your situation will affect the cracking, but I assume it will be similar. The biggest problem you will have is that the stump will remain wet inside and eventually rot from the inside out. I am afraid I have no solution to that problem.
Thank you for responding. As I suspected. Will not waste time carving the trout around the perimeter but might finish the top surface and epoxy as mentioned. It will take years before the rot renders the top useless. Temporary enjoyment for little effort. Thanks again.
I didn’t see my questions yet so I’ll give it a try! I’ve got a white oak coming down tomorrow with 30″ diameter or so under the bark for much of the trunk. I’m trying to decide what kinds of cookies to ask for from the arborist. Ideal would be 3-4″ thick round, to keep it from being to heavy. 1) There is at least one section with a 10″ diameter cavity toward the side that was home to honey bees for years. Are natural cavities enough to forestall cracking, or only if they encompass the pith? 2) I’m willing to try an angle cut (which makes it about 45″ wide oval) if that seems like it has a reasonable chance of surviving – does that seem likely with a white oak? Thanks, this was a sobering read.
Anything that breaks up the full circle or eliminates the middle will help reduce or eliminate the cracking.
I’m doing some flat sawn balusters and while priming noticed the boards were starting to cup. The wood has been testing at under 10 percent. Is there a remedy for this?
Usually the boards will cup if one side is treated differently from the other, meaning one side gets wet (primed) and the other does not. If you treat both sides the same, they may cup in the beginning, but will typically flatten back out once dry and stabilized, if they started out dry.
I have a huge red oak that must go, is there a y market to have someone come in and cut it up for planks. ( Columbus, Georgia)
Not much. Red oak is selling, but not a good clip, so prices are low. If you do anything with it, you will probably be paying to have it processed.
Hi there, I came across this article trying to find out if I could use live edge cherry for siding on my house in Pennsylvania. It’s just one east-facing wall, not a huge commitment. I’m guessing it would be about 1” thick, basically whatever thickness that is best for this application. My concerns are insect damage, rot (from this article it sounds like sapwood on the live edge may be a concern), and I guess warping. I would finish it to preserve it, and hopefully preserve the color too.
In researching this topic, I keep seeing the same types of wood recommended—redwood, cedar, pine, etc.— but can’t find much information that gives hands on reasoning why NOT to use hardwoods like cherry or walnut. Often, people just copy advice they learned and then preach it blindly, without really knowing. Your knowledge is based on observation and not preconceived notion.
I also have access to black locust, which I know to last a while outside.
Thanks!
Tommy
The gum balls do make decent fire pit starters. And collecting them can be fare entertainment for toddlers.
No one seems to mention the fact that sweetgum trees are giant birdfeeders in late winter. When the pods are ready, the chickadees and other songbirds are all over it. I delight in watching this feast every winter, as I have a large gumball tree in my backkyard, that I have not cut, even though l dislike the gumballs. It is also a great tree for erosion control, as they are so sturdy and put up with all kinds of conditions.
I completely agree with you except it is wonderful wood for turning.
Scott!! It was nice to see your post! I hope you’re well. I know you don’t love hearing how your jointer is doing but I wanted to let you know it has not moved since the day I plopped it in its current position like 10 years ago. I’ll always be grateful to you for that thing.
But look… the reason I am writing is that a few years ago I was asked to build a dash section for a guy with an old Bentley and learned something that surprised me. If you do not know about it I think it will surprise you too. I only know that sweet gum is sometimes used as lumber and that everyone who has it in their yard complains about the spikeyballs. But have you heard of “liquid amber”? This is clearly a magical substance that is only available to the super rich. It is obtained by cooking and shaving the wood of the common sweet gum tree in Mississippi. The shavings are as thin as ten sheets of printer paper and have undergone some sort of mystical transfiguration. No longer sweet gum, they now are liquid amber and are appropriate for use in only the finest automobiles.
Anyhow you can read about it here.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1115268_bentley-adds-new-wood-veneer-sourced-from-america
All you have to do is sell your hideous twisted boards of liquid amber to designers and all your troubles will be over.
-Mickey
410.533.1794 http://www.mickeymccann.com http://www.instagram.com/mickey.mccann
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Great article! Ugh, we have a sweet gum in our front yard. Agree with Chris, they are beautiful but what a mess!!
I collect the sweet gum balls from my neighbor and use them around the base of my hosta plants to keep the slugs and other insects from climbing up into the plant and destroying them. You can place them around your foundation to keep spiders roaches and such away from your house.
Sent from my iPhone
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I had the good fortune of having a sweetgum tree that had grown in the woods, was about 18″ diameter and the log was about 8’6″ and straight. The tree was dead, next to a road and had to come down to allow a truck with building materials for a new house to pass. I was offered the tree and a neighbor took it over to a sawmill in exchange for some of the wood. It was cut live edge, four quarter with the exception of the middle which was cut into 4″ wide strips and a 4 X 4 cant. The wood was flat and straight when I picked it up and has stayed that way. I am down to the last piece. Jim
That wood loads so fast on video! How do you do that?????
Simple. Just fast forward.
One question â did you pay?!
Jeff Zeis â¨
C 314 440 8205
[cid:image001.png@01D7F592.B7127730]
From: WunderWoods
Date: Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 7:14 PM
To: Jeff Zeis
Subject: [New post] Visiting Mueller Brothers Timber
wunderwoods posted: ” I love visiting Mueller Brothers Timber in Old Monroe. It just feels right to me. I like the the guys that run the place and I like that it feels like I’m out in the country, even though I’m less than thirty minutes away from the shop. I visit there some”
I didn’t buy any logs, but I did pay for the lumber. I don’t get out of there very often without buying something.
Hey, we are starting an elm revolution too! Siberian elm is considered a trash tree in our neck of the woods (Moab, utah) but we discovered its a really pretty wood and easy to work with. I use water based poly on projects when I want a neutral blonde/grey color and a mix of turpentine, tung oil, and water based poly when I want more reds and browns. The only way to get it is to mill it ourselves. Cool stuff!
Hey Scott, what is the hot glue gun filler you are using? Does it require an accelerator?
Could you use a 22” diameter walnut tree with minimal woodpecker holes? I’d like to cut it down soon. The straight trunk is approximately 20’. Stephen
Sent from Stephen’s iPhone
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I could. Note that we don’t usually pay for logs. I get 99% of them at no cost. I only buy logs we I have a specific order I can’t fill.
Would the piece still split if it was a half circle slice?
Most likely not. The splitting tension would be relieved when the round is cut from the outside to the middle. Cutting it into a half circle would be like two relief cuts from the outside to the center – twice as good.
thank you scott for another project video. always fun to see what you are up to.
Where did you find the plastic dust shoot for your powermatic planer? I have a 16” model and need one.
Thanks
Rc
I’m afraid I don’t know. Everything came with the planer when I purchased it used.
Nice production quality!
Jeff Zeis â¨
C 314 440 8205
[cid:image001.png@01D8054B.4B649A40]
From: WunderWoods
Date: Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 11:06 AM
To: Jeff Zeis
Subject: [New post] Badass live edge walnut conference room table
wunderwoods posted: ” We just delivered a walnut conference room table and I have been doing my best to describe it. I feel like it’s a bit aggressive and perhaps a little braggy, but after I show the photos, I get agreement on the word “badass”. It started with a sketch “
Your right that is one badass table look amazing
That’s extremely cool Scott! How lucky to be able to work with fine tools and materials! I’d like to put our heads together and figure out what to do with all the great ash trees we soon will need to harvest. Stay healthy! Wes Fordyce
Sent from high on a windy hill.
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This is TOTALLY BADASS! Love it! Loved the video, too. 🙂 Betsy
I’ve been watching your videos. That shop is huge. Nothing like the garage and land in North County. I really liked the the shelf’s. Continued success.
what a beautiful wood and project to do it proud. Nicely done.
Your Uncle Sam here. Great video, Scott. True artistry in those hands.
BIG question- how can I order some of those sharp WunderWoods hoodies? I need at least six in various sizes for myself, Ardy, Erika, Matt, etc.
Keep up the videos. We are lucky to live in a time when you can document your exceptional work and career.
All the best, Sam
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Scott and Tom are awesome! What a fabulous job they did milling and installing our Sycamore bar top. Everyone loves it and can’t believe how amazing it looks! We highly recommend Wunderwoods of St Charles Mo for your custom wood projects. Maggie and Garry
The first time I came by I thought I might get arrested. 🙂 I knocked on a door with a lot of logs around it outside, but no one was there. Couldn’t tell if I should just go in or go away. Later trips were much less interesting.
I have been experimenting with the Knottec brand epoxy hot melt since I first noticed it in your blog. It’s great for cracks and pin knots but so far I’ve been unable to get a decent looking surface on larger fills. Is the aluminum pressure block essential in getting a hard final surface to sand?
I don’t think the aluminum block affects the final surface. On larger fills (especially ones that I add bark) I usually leave it high and don’t use the block. The next step for me is to go to the wide belt sander, which will sand a large area faster. I’m guessing that you are running into issues with large fills getting hot and, in turn, soft from a focused sanding effort with a hand sander in one area. Try to remove the material quickly, without creating too much heat. A plane or rasp or even a rougher grit belt sander will speed up the material removal and create less heat. I often finish sand the larger areas by hand, with a stiff sanding block backer to keep everything flat. If you do this, it will also reduce the heat.
Great Video Scott, thanks a lot!
Lovely door, it did look rather heavy.
Thank you, Scott. Very informative as always.
Nice video, Scott. (as always) I am wondering how you vary the thickness of the cut? ( by eye, or 2 cranks of the handle…?)
There is a ruler on the opposite side of the sawmill which you can’t see from this camera angle.
Great work as always, Scott!
Well done Scott. Great presentation of the steps. Did you make the doors or just install them?
Are you frikin kidding me! The original video (which I have not seen) I guarantee you is four million ties better than the new one, solely for the shakiness and the videographer. Screw those people.
I have some walnut and ash logs I am going to have cut into live edge slabs (2″) What do you do at the plinth? Center it so its all in that one peace or split it between two slabs.
I am not sure what you are asking. Could you rephrase the question please?
Congratulations
Thank you, Scott. Learned a lot. Enjoyed the video.
Great write-up Scott. Very interesting to hear when a walnut is worth it and when it’s not. I’ve talked to people who say they have a walnut that wants to come down, and they think they’re going to get thousands of dollars for it. I try to break it to them softly but they didn’t want to hear it. They’ll find out on their own, LOL
Really nice specimen! I usually count the rings just to educate myself about “a (this species) tree this big is about (this many) years old. I thought cherry were the most valuable?
I am definitely going to check to see how old it is after we get it milled. Cherry was in great demand a few years ago, but walnut is in more demand now and has always sold at a higher price during my career.
Love reading your insights . Beautiful tree! Love walnut
I enjoy your reading your posts almost as much as i enjoy talking to you at your shop, keep them coming!!
Thanks Jerry. I appreciate the support.
Thanks for sharing this info. Very helpful!
Always read and enjoy your post, keep them coming
Jerry Meyer
Hi Scott!
Late to the party here, but just wondering what exactly you did to finish that piece of elm. It’s absolutely gorgeous and I’d like to apply the same finish to some elm I picked up for floating shelves.
Thanks,
-Matthew
We used Krystal conversion varnish from M.L. Campbell, satin sheen. There is nothing else on it. A lacquer would give you the same look, though less protection against water. We use them both, but use Krystal when it is likely to get wet.
LOL funny! Fortunately you are a quick learner and started operating “NY style”! I hope your customer appreciates the cabinets and what you went through to get them delivered safely.
No Bullet Holes in the Cabinets?
just a few more reasons to not go to New York!!
Lovely still wanting the Nortis T rebate plane done up. Still saving.
Please refer to the place of your installation as New York CITY. Calling it just New York is the equivalent of calling Illinois, Chicago. Which is another disgusting city that insults the non metroplex residents of an otherwise beautiful and sane state.
You can tell I have never been there before. Having the same name for the city and the state makes it a little trickier than normal. New York City it is.
You know the trick of using steam to remove dents from wood, for example with a clothes iron and a damp cloth? If you do that with unsteamed walnut, can that change the color where you have steamed to raise the dent? I’ve done this a number of times without thinking about it, but then today for some reason I started to wonder if I’ve just gotten lucky and this is a bad idea with unsteamed walnut, that perhaps it could leave blotches of inconsistent color. I’m guessing the steaming is so short and brief for removing a dent that it doesn’t matter. Do you know?
The steaming process to change the color of walnut takes much longer than the time it takes to remove a dent. We steam dents out of walnut all the time and I have never seen any color change.
Another beautiful piece Scott. Well done.
Teak. Teak also lightens with age. :>)
Looks great, how are the arch legs attached to support a 4.5’ X 14’ table top?
We will be welding the legs to metal plates which attach under the top.